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Author Topic: ETA for the ETF? (and Gemini Exchange speculation)  (Read 20927 times)
Fakhoury
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August 06, 2015, 10:24:43 PM
 #121

In latest TechCrunch Bitcoin Podcast, host states that he 'has seen' Gemini and that it is 'coming soon'

http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/06/this-week-on-techcrunchs-bitcoin-podcast-biggs-goes-reddit-and-meet-to-com/

Thanks for that my old friend Fakhoury. Will go & read the link now. I've been awaiting an update on Gemini, it's not something that'll send us to the moon but upon breaking news that it opens for business (whenever that is) we should get a 100 USD pump surely?



Edit - I remember somebody posted a link to the Gemini instagram account. I just had a little look & their latest post was yesterday, a picture of a roller coaster or something. They went on a team day out.......How about you give us a date when your exchange will finally open Wink

You are most welcome my best friend LFC Wink

Well, what I think about Gemini is, both COIN ETF and Gemini will make the magic, not Gemini alone.

Gemini will sure help us in our journey, maybe we can get a mini rally as you said, somehow sure about it.

I want you to read my topic about the mass adoption, it makes a lot of sense that we will witness it in 10-15 years from now.

Quote from:  Satoshi Nakamoto
Feb. 14, 2010: I’m sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume.
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Fakhoury
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August 06, 2015, 10:25:55 PM
 #122

An increase in to the 300s, 400s would be nice and create an exciting atmosphere once again.

This forum will be fun during the next big rally!

Remember rjclarke when we hit the $317, how much fun it was Cheesy

You are right, the next BIG rally will be so fun to witness Cheesy

Quote from:  Satoshi Nakamoto
Feb. 14, 2010: I’m sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume.
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August 06, 2015, 11:06:18 PM
 #123

An increase in to the 300s, 400s would be nice and create an exciting atmosphere once again.

This forum will be fun during the next big rally!

Remember rjclarke when we hit the $317, how much fun it was Cheesy

You are right, the next BIG rally will be so fun to witness Cheesy

Even if its from 120 to 200?
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August 08, 2015, 01:46:22 AM
 #124

ETF has the potential to open the floodgates to massive amounts of capital by eliminating that friction. That ought to have a very substantial upward effect on the price.
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August 08, 2015, 02:04:10 AM
 #125

ETF has the potential to open the floodgates to massive amounts of capital by eliminating that friction. That ought to have a very substantial upward effect on the price.

That's very true, it can also validate bitcoin to non-believers if they see a real bitcoin ETF trading on NADAQ or NYSE.
It might make people actually look into bitcoin and learn what it's really about instead of dismissing it because they heard it was a ponzi scheme and the CEO died in 2013.

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August 11, 2015, 01:37:53 PM
 #126

So let's say the ETF comes out and is successful. Would it be more profitable to hold shares of the ETF or bitcoins themselves?

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August 11, 2015, 02:14:33 PM
 #127

So let's say the ETF comes out and is successful. Would it be more profitable to hold shares of the ETF or bitcoins themselves?

They would essentially be worth the same... unless you value privacy and actual ownership which in this case holding Bitcoin is the reasonable thing to do.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 11, 2015, 02:40:36 PM
 #128

lol you guys are over estimating the winkles.

also, the etf is not going to happen anytime soon (within the next year).

They even switched legal advisors, for Gemini trust license they are now using Kaye Scholer LLP instead of Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP (which is/was used for their ETF)

I guess Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP couldn't get the job done, so they found another attorney.

good indicator: a few months before the ETF goes live because they will submit another S-1A excluding companies like mtgox, btc-e, and including companies like itbit, gemini, coinbase exchange etc

I think the SEC looked at the current, and previous, S-1A's with all those shady companies and laughed.

also, Gemini and ETF are unrelated. gemini is not a magic pill to get the ETF approved.

Gemini and itBit are practically the same in terms of regulations. And itBit is already launched. ETF's dont require the sponsors to launch their own exchange.

You should check the facts before sharing your fud  Wink

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/reportpub/wb150724.htm

Quote
July 22, 2015 (TR-CRB)
GEMINI TRUST COMPANY, LLC
30 West 24th Street, 4th Floor, New York, New York 10010
Articles of Organization received.

Organizers

Cameron H. Winklevoss, New York, NY
Tyler H. Winklevoss, New York, NY
Evan L. Greebel, Scarsdale, NY
Charles R. Macedo, Ardsley, NY
Kathleen H. Moriarty, New York, NY

Kathleen Moriarty is still helping the Winklevoss twins, but Moriarty left Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP and joined Kaye Scholer LLP.

So the twins are now working with Kaye Scholer LLP.

http://www.kayescholer.com/in-the-market/news/firm_news/20150630-evan-l-greebel-and-kathleen-h-moriarty-join-kaye-scholers-corporate-practice-as-partners

You can see this on Moriarty's Linkedin page: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/kathleen-h-moriarty-aka-%22spdrwoman%22/b/236/15b


Although, the good news is that it looks like this new firm they are working with is more interested in the Bitcoin space. From LinkedIn:

Financial Transactions Lawyer: focusing on:
--regulatory, structural, operational, trading, cross-listing and compliance issues related to ETFs, registered investment companies, other liquid alts, derivative securities, commodities and non-investment company exchange traded vehicles such as ETCs and ETPs;
--licensing of financial indexes and services for use with such products;
--BITCOIN : regulatory, structural, operational, trading, and compliance issues
brg444
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August 11, 2015, 02:51:46 PM
 #129

lol you guys are over estimating the winkles.

also, the etf is not going to happen anytime soon (within the next year).

They even switched legal advisors, for Gemini trust license they are now using Kaye Scholer LLP instead of Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP (which is/was used for their ETF)

I guess Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP couldn't get the job done, so they found another attorney.

good indicator: a few months before the ETF goes live because they will submit another S-1A excluding companies like mtgox, btc-e, and including companies like itbit, gemini, coinbase exchange etc

I think the SEC looked at the current, and previous, S-1A's with all those shady companies and laughed.

also, Gemini and ETF are unrelated. gemini is not a magic pill to get the ETF approved.

Gemini and itBit are practically the same in terms of regulations. And itBit is already launched. ETF's dont require the sponsors to launch their own exchange.

You should check the facts before sharing your fud  Wink

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/reportpub/wb150724.htm

Quote
July 22, 2015 (TR-CRB)
GEMINI TRUST COMPANY, LLC
30 West 24th Street, 4th Floor, New York, New York 10010
Articles of Organization received.

Organizers

Cameron H. Winklevoss, New York, NY
Tyler H. Winklevoss, New York, NY
Evan L. Greebel, Scarsdale, NY
Charles R. Macedo, Ardsley, NY
Kathleen H. Moriarty, New York, NY

Kathleen Moriarty is still helping the Winklevoss twins, but Moriarty left Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP and joined Kaye Scholer LLP.

So the twins are now working with Kaye Scholer LLP.

http://www.kayescholer.com/in-the-market/news/firm_news/20150630-evan-l-greebel-and-kathleen-h-moriarty-join-kaye-scholers-corporate-practice-as-partners

You can see this on Moriarty's Linkedin page: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/kathleen-h-moriarty-aka-%22spdrwoman%22/b/236/15b


Although, the good news is that it looks like this new firm they are working with is more interested in the Bitcoin space. From LinkedIn:

Financial Transactions Lawyer: focusing on:
--regulatory, structural, operational, trading, cross-listing and compliance issues related to ETFs, registered investment companies, other liquid alts, derivative securities, commodities and non-investment company exchange traded vehicles such as ETCs and ETPs;
--licensing of financial indexes and services for use with such products;
--BITCOIN : regulatory, structural, operational, trading, and compliance issues

I am aware of that.

Simply pointing out that "I guess Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP couldn't get the job done, so they found another attorney." and "they switched legal advisors" is kind of a stretch in this circumstance.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
btcbug
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August 11, 2015, 03:13:24 PM
 #130

So let's say the ETF comes out and is successful. Would it be more profitable to hold shares of the ETF or bitcoins themselves?

They would essentially be worth the same... unless you value privacy and actual ownership which in this case holding Bitcoin is the reasonable thing to do.


One reason for Canadians to purchase ETF shares is because of something called the TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account). It's a government registered account in which you are allowed to invest a certain amount ($5k roughly) per year. It's been around for a few years and if you haven't contributed in the past then your cumulative total since 2009 would be $41,000.

The name is kind of misleading. A TFSA can be a savings account, but it can also be a brokerage account to hold Stocks, etc. So in this case you'd be able to purchase Bitcoin ETF shares and hold them in your TFSA and cash them out later tax free! For people holding BTC directly it might actually be worth selling some and repurchasing as ETF so that some of your gains will be non-taxable.
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August 11, 2015, 03:22:31 PM
 #131

So let's say the ETF comes out and is successful. Would it be more profitable to hold shares of the ETF or bitcoins themselves?

They would essentially be worth the same... unless you value privacy and actual ownership which in this case holding Bitcoin is the reasonable thing to do.


One reason for Canadians to purchase ETF shares is because of something called the TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account). It's a government registered account in which you are allowed to invest a certain amount ($5k roughly) per year. It's been around for a few years and if you haven't contributed in the past then your cumulative total since 2009 would be $41,000.

The name is kind of misleading. A TFSA can be a savings account, but it can also be a brokerage account to hold Stocks, etc. So in this case you'd be able to purchase Bitcoin ETF shares and hold them in your TFSA and cash them out later tax free! For people holding BTC directly it might actually be worth selling some and repurchasing as ETF so that some of your gains will be non-taxable.

Why would you ever want to "cash-out" the gains and report them to authorities? Stop trying to legitimize this broken system.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 11, 2015, 04:42:33 PM
 #132

The etf wont happen if the exchange doesnt come 1st. They need to sell at anytime they please.

The exchange will be more of a marketing promotional tool to prove traditional investors that they are secure based on them having an exchange of their own makes them feel more safe.

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August 11, 2015, 04:50:34 PM
 #133

ETF has the potential to open the floodgates to massive amounts of capital by eliminating that friction. That ought to have a very substantial upward effect on the price.

ETF might do that, but it will also be bad for bitcoin development due to "paper" bitcoin effects, similar to paper gold and silver.
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August 11, 2015, 05:21:31 PM
 #134

So let's say the ETF comes out and is successful. Would it be more profitable to hold shares of the ETF or bitcoins themselves?

They would essentially be worth the same... unless you value privacy and actual ownership which in this case holding Bitcoin is the reasonable thing to do.


One reason for Canadians to purchase ETF shares is because of something called the TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account). It's a government registered account in which you are allowed to invest a certain amount ($5k roughly) per year. It's been around for a few years and if you haven't contributed in the past then your cumulative total since 2009 would be $41,000.

The name is kind of misleading. A TFSA can be a savings account, but it can also be a brokerage account to hold Stocks, etc. So in this case you'd be able to purchase Bitcoin ETF shares and hold them in your TFSA and cash them out later tax free! For people holding BTC directly it might actually be worth selling some and repurchasing as ETF so that some of your gains will be non-taxable.

Why would you ever want to "cash-out" the gains and report them to authorities? Stop trying to legitimize this broken system.

Some people rather just have a free of guilty conscious which is what I assume.

But yeah, no one really honestly would come forward in reality to that scenario unless they were high or something since that it doesnt make sense from the start.

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August 11, 2015, 06:06:27 PM
 #135

So let's say the ETF comes out and is successful. Would it be more profitable to hold shares of the ETF or bitcoins themselves?

They would essentially be worth the same... unless you value privacy and actual ownership which in this case holding Bitcoin is the reasonable thing to do.


One reason for Canadians to purchase ETF shares is because of something called the TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account). It's a government registered account in which you are allowed to invest a certain amount ($5k roughly) per year. It's been around for a few years and if you haven't contributed in the past then your cumulative total since 2009 would be $41,000.

The name is kind of misleading. A TFSA can be a savings account, but it can also be a brokerage account to hold Stocks, etc. So in this case you'd be able to purchase Bitcoin ETF shares and hold them in your TFSA and cash them out later tax free! For people holding BTC directly it might actually be worth selling some and repurchasing as ETF so that some of your gains will be non-taxable.

Why would you ever want to "cash-out" the gains and report them to authorities? Stop trying to legitimize this broken system.

Spare me this idealist bullshit for a moment. I agree with you for the part however, it is not legitimizing the system to sell some of your Bitcoins for multiple times what you paid for them and diversify into other assets. That is just being prudent! Bitcoin is still no guarantee even though we all want it to be widely adopted. The ETF is just another option for people. It is directed at the mainstream. As for why would someone report their gains? Well how the hell do you expect to buy an ETF and make money on without reporting the gains? Obviously if you don't wanna buy the ETF then my post was not directed at you.
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August 11, 2015, 07:00:56 PM
 #136

Gemini and ETF need to hurry up and get here
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August 11, 2015, 07:21:50 PM
 #137

Gemini and ETF need to hurry up and get here

ETF is still a pretty long way off, a couple of years at least in my opinion. I'm under the impression that Gemini should be approved, commence trading or whatever shortly. I definitely expect it up & running by the halving in summer 2016 any way.




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August 12, 2015, 09:33:47 PM
 #138

Gemini and ETF need to hurry up and get here

ETF is still a pretty long way off, a couple of years at least in my opinion. I'm under the impression that Gemini should be approved, commence trading or whatever shortly. I definitely expect it up & running by the halving in summer 2016 any way.

Yeah I think we wont see it happen till like 2016.

Being hopeful would be early jan or feb of 2016. But we all know its been how many years when they made this type of announcement of forming a etf and getting it approved and all the other stuff.

I do admit its a good thing though on what they are doing despite the time delay.
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August 13, 2015, 06:53:04 PM
 #139


Quote from:  Satoshi Nakamoto
Feb. 14, 2010: I’m sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume.
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August 13, 2015, 08:52:40 PM
 #140



From reddit:

Quote
[–]winky_pop 

Hey guys, Cameron here. Just wanted to clarify that the emails sent out today were sent to institutional customers (who signed up to our early access list) in order to begin the process of setting up their account -- there’s more KYC work to do to get institutions onboarded than individual customers, hence why we have started to get the process started with these folks earlier. We’ll be sending out invites to individuals once we’re ready to launch, which we expect to be quite soon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3gvw44/gemini_invite_just_arrived/
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