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Author Topic: [PPC] Peercoin - Indicium Logo & PeerAssets Diagram Released  (Read 41007 times)
Yurizhai
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September 24, 2014, 06:01:50 AM
 #61

The objective is to lower the supply when demand is low, and increase when demand is high.
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September 24, 2014, 06:38:05 AM
 #62

I might got it wrong but your tools to stabilize prize is by auto selling in centralized exchanges and by offering high interest rates when the prize is too low?

EDIT
It seems I got it right...https://nubits.com/about/price-stability

Probably this explains the -25% peercoin price so far

Why is it centralized? There is not just one exchange. This gets elected by the network. AFAIN there are custodians which apply for a specific task. This could be developing an app or creating a sell wall at exchange Bter.com for a specific time. I have know idea if there is a mechanism to avoid cheating (why does the custodian not just run away?) neither do I know what profit they make for their effort.

"Morality, it could be argued, represents the way that people would like the world to work - whereas economics represents how it actually does work." Freakonomics
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September 24, 2014, 06:41:03 AM
 #63

I might got it wrong but your tools to stabilize prize is by auto selling in centralized exchanges and by offering high interest rates when the prize is too low?

EDIT
It seems I got it right...https://nubits.com/about/price-stability

Probably this explains the -25% peercoin price so far

Why is it centralized? There is not just one exchange. This gets elected by the network. AFAIN there are custodians which apply for a specific task. This could be developing an app or creating a sell wall at exchange Bter.com for a specific time. I have know idea if there is a mechanism to avoid cheating (why does the custodian not just run away?) neither do I know what profit they make for their effort.

The custodian will likely prove that they are a major stake holder in NuShares, so that their objectives are aligned with the rest of the shareholders.
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September 24, 2014, 06:51:23 AM
 #64

From my perspective, this NuBits thing is simply too complicated and 'blessed' with the need for human interference. I wish them best.

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September 24, 2014, 07:15:59 AM
Last edit: September 24, 2014, 06:57:57 PM by masterOfDisaster
 #65

Nubits looks like a centralised coin to me. 1$ each? Without mining? Just so? Where these money go?
The only stable thing is the income of the 'custodians'.
Newbiets, the coin for newbies: that should be the name.

NuBits is the coin emitted by the "Nu bank", which is represented by the holders of NuShares. And because the NuShares are distributed (one might call it a "Distributed Anonymous Bank", DAB) you can't call it centralized.
If the bank that emits a currency is not centralized, the currency isn't, either.
And for sure the NuBits are created out of thin air - from where else without paying a "price" for their creation? If the bank had to pay for creating NuBits, it couldn't afford to buy and sell tham at an exact rate of 1 USD.
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September 24, 2014, 07:34:56 AM
 #66

As far as I understand, nubits are created in two ways:
1) To maintain ask walls.
2) As interest to those, who park their nubits when it's necessary to reduce amount in circulation.
And nubits never get destroyed. So amount of nubits is going to grow monotonically. This will inevitably lead to nubits collapse, as even interest alone (if it doesn't change over time) provide exponential growth of nubits amount.
How long this system will last depends on amount of trust. Why would someone park nubits to get more nubits? Ony if he's sure that he can always cash them out to USD at exchange rate close to 1.0. If that trust is alredy undermined some users will cash out, and the system will have to increase interest rate more and more to maintain bid walls, but the more interest the system pays the more nubits will go to sell side next time. Collapse is inevitable.
Am I wrong?

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September 24, 2014, 07:47:03 AM
 #67



Quote
And nubits never get destroyed.


NuBits are destroyed in every transaction, just like Peercoin.

Quote
So amount of nubits is going to grow monotonically. This will inevitably lead to nubits collapse, as even interest alone (if it doesn't change over time) provide exponential growth of nubits amount.
How long this system will last depends on amount of trust. Why would someone park nubits to get more nubits? Ony if he's sure that he can always cash them out to USD at exchange rate close to 1.0. If that trust is alredy undermined some users will cash out, and the system will have to increase interest rate more and more to maintain bid walls, but the more interest the system pays the more nubits will go to sell side next time. Collapse is inevitable.
Am I wrong?

Interest will be 0 in times of high demand, and a fair amount in times of low. I do not believe this leads to exponential increases. Many people will choose to park NBT just for the interest paid.
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September 24, 2014, 08:35:28 AM
 #68



Quote
And nubits never get destroyed.


NuBits are destroyed in every transaction, just like Peercoin.

Quote
So amount of nubits is going to grow monotonically. This will inevitably lead to nubits collapse, as even interest alone (if it doesn't change over time) provide exponential growth of nubits amount.
How long this system will last depends on amount of trust. Why would someone park nubits to get more nubits? Ony if he's sure that he can always cash them out to USD at exchange rate close to 1.0. If that trust is alredy undermined some users will cash out, and the system will have to increase interest rate more and more to maintain bid walls, but the more interest the system pays the more nubits will go to sell side next time. Collapse is inevitable.
Am I wrong?

Interest will be 0 in times of high demand, and a fair amount in times of low. I do not believe this leads to exponential increases. Many people will choose to park NBT just for the interest paid.
It's always easy to do your business when demand for your product is high. By the way, when demand is high, amount of nubits in existence may grow much faster than even an exponent.
So basically transaction fees are your only hope. If your system enteres low demand mode, you need to destroy more nubits in transactions than you create when you pay interests. If there are not enough tps, you need to increase transaction fees, what makes your system even less popular, the system is now doomed anyway.

All in all, much simpler CoinoUSD seems to be much more viable to me.

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September 24, 2014, 08:43:28 AM
 #69

What makes sure that the custodians keep behaving well? It might pay off to get elected as a custodian, and then park all your nubits instead of selling them for $1. Or keep the dollars after selling a big amount. Did I miss something?
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September 24, 2014, 08:57:00 AM
 #70

What makes sure that the custodians keep behaving well? It might pay off to get elected as a custodian, and then park all your nubits instead of selling them for $1. Or keep the dollars after selling a big amount. Did I miss something?

From the white paper:
"It is likely custodians will demonstrate they hold a substantial quantity of NuShares so that shareholders know custodians' interests align with their own. It is likely that at some point a custodian will disappoint shareholders, but the damage they can cause is limited to the value of the grant they have already received."
It's like in the real world: if you delegate power, try to be sure to grant it to the right person.

Parking needs voting from holders of NuShares as far as I got it.
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September 24, 2014, 09:40:58 AM
 #71

From my perspective, this NuBits thing is simply too complicated and 'blessed' with the need for human interference. I wish them best.

hm, and Bitcoin is not complicated?

"Morality, it could be argued, represents the way that people would like the world to work - whereas economics represents how it actually does work." Freakonomics
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September 24, 2014, 09:43:23 AM
 #72

What makes sure that the custodians keep behaving well? It might pay off to get elected as a custodian, and then park all your nubits instead of selling them for $1. Or keep the dollars after selling a big amount. Did I miss something?

From the white paper:
"It is likely custodians will demonstrate they hold a substantial quantity of NuShares so that shareholders know custodians' interests align with their own. It is likely that at some point a custodian will disappoint shareholders, but the damage they can cause is limited to the value of the grant they have already received."
It's like in the real world: if you delegate power, try to be sure to grant it to the right person.

Parking needs voting from holders of NuShares as far as I got it.

As far as I understand just the interest rate gets voted for. The higher the interest rate the more people will park.
And I think there are custodians which build up a reputation or proof that they have an interest in doing like they are told (like having a big stake in nushares).

"Morality, it could be argued, represents the way that people would like the world to work - whereas economics represents how it actually does work." Freakonomics
porcupine87
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September 24, 2014, 09:50:41 AM
 #73

It's always easy to do your business when demand for your product is high. By the way, when demand is high, amount of nubits in existence may grow much faster than even an exponent.
So basically transaction fees are your only hope. If your system enteres low demand mode, you need to destroy more nubits in transactions than you create when you pay interests. If there are not enough tps, you need to increase transaction fees, what makes your system even less popular, the system is now doomed anyway.

All in all, much simpler CoinoUSD seems to be much more viable to me.

That might be a problem. To keep the price up the systems has to pay higher and higher interest rates, so more nubits get created. This leads to lower price. Seems like a doom loop.

Can you explain shorty how CoinoUSD keeps the price at 1USD?

"Morality, it could be argued, represents the way that people would like the world to work - whereas economics represents how it actually does work." Freakonomics
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September 24, 2014, 10:07:37 AM
 #74

Sorry about using the old PPC coin logo that is displayed on http://CoinMarketApp.com - it is still in pre-ann stages, and it will be corrected with the new coin logo once we launch.   We are still preparing for launch tomorrow;  we would need more collaboration from the PPC community as to which links they want to see added. Check the thread here as to how we are laying out bitcoin hhttps://bitcointalk.to/index.php?topic=792912.msg8951714#msg8951714 we prefer links come from official sources and community managed links.

We will add some links about NuBits, please do bring those in as well.  Great work so far guys, PPC has been looking strong and solid for a very long time now.  NuBits could take it furthers steps I believe

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September 24, 2014, 10:34:54 AM
 #75

It's always easy to do your business when demand for your product is high. By the way, when demand is high, amount of nubits in existence may grow much faster than even an exponent.
So basically transaction fees are your only hope. If your system enteres low demand mode, you need to destroy more nubits in transactions than you create when you pay interests. If there are not enough tps, you need to increase transaction fees, what makes your system even less popular, the system is now doomed anyway.

All in all, much simpler CoinoUSD seems to be much more viable to me.

That might be a problem. To keep the price up the systems has to pay higher and higher interest rates, so more nubits get created. This leads to lower price. Seems like a doom loop.

Can you explain shorty how CoinoUSD keeps the price at 1USD?
CoinoUSD is just an asset which exists on NXT blockchain.

Quote from: coinomat link=https://coinomat.com/coinousd.php
CoinoUSD is an asset tied to US dollar, 1 CoinoUSD = 1 dollar. CoinoUSD brings USD to NXT trading directly to NXT blockchain, without using exchanges. We maintain a gateway which allows to buy CoinoUSD asset for USD denominated payment systems. When you buy CoinoUSD asset is it transferred to you, and can be traded or sold back to us. It can even be withdrawn to your bank card!
Yes, it's only Coinomat who provides guarantee, that one will be able to exchange CoinoUSD for e.g. VisaUSD, but you are still able to transfer CoinoUSD to anybody who's connected to NXT network. Also it's easy to exchange CoinoUSD on NXT AE (their distributed exchange).

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September 24, 2014, 10:47:18 AM
 #76

After reading about nubits/nushares, it doesn't seem to me, that this project benefits Peercoin, however it's nice to see Peershares are getting implemented, maybe other Peershares projects will be more interesting. And by the way, could somebody publish Peershares whitepaper here or somewhere, where it could be freely downloaded from. Link from github works only for peercointalk.org registered users.

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September 24, 2014, 10:48:47 AM
 #77

After reading about nubits/nushares, it doesn't seem to me, that this project benefits Peercoin, however it's nice to see Peershares are getting implemented, maybe other Peershares projects will be more interesting. And by the way, could somebody publish Peershares whitepaper here or somewhere, where it could be freely downloaded from. Link from github works only for peercointalk.org registered users.

here u go bro

http://oclc.org/research/activities/sharesp2p.html

~CfA~

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September 24, 2014, 11:27:25 AM
 #78

From my perspective, this NuBits thing is simply too complicated and 'blessed' with the need for human interference. I wish them best.

hm, and Bitcoin is not complicated?

It is, and now imagine with ^2 on top.

But if the idea is sound and the execution sufficient, I will learn eventually  Kiss

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September 24, 2014, 12:49:47 PM
 #79

After reading about nubits/nushares, it doesn't seem to me, that this project benefits Peercoin[...]
You have read the passage that deals with ditribution of dividends?
How can it not benefit Peercoin if the dividends are paid in Peercoins?
This shows a great trust of Nu in the sustainability and security of Peercoin.
And it creates a momentum for Peercoin price.


[...]it's nice to see Peershares are getting implemented[...]
I agree that it's nice to see Peershares getting implemented.
Other implementation will hopefully follow.
And if they rely on Peercoin for paying the dividends the benefit for Peercoin will grow even further.
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September 24, 2014, 12:51:44 PM
 #80

How does NuBits compare with BitUsd ? They both try to peg USD if I have it right.

Then there is CoinoUSD. Expect lots more in the near future.

All these can only be good news for us. More competition equals more innovation.



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