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grendel25
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September 23, 2014, 01:28:15 AM
 #1

My opinion is that BTC value may be degraded as other crypto currencies take root:

1)  A core belief in BTC is the value of cost effective financial mechanisms but other currencies can do this just as well.  Therefore, what may be 'special' about BTC may also be easily duplicated in other similar mechanisms and for just as much if not a better value.

2) The hay-day of independent mining may soon end as the process is industrialized.  Think about it, if everyone could print money, they would.  It's not just that it's illegal, it's also that it's not cost effective for people to manage.  Similar parallels can be drawn to the current scenario.

I'm all for BTC reversing it's current negative trend.  I would even like it if mining were profitable to the layperson.  But the above two thoughts occurred to me and I can see several good reasons for the future of the layperson in crypto currency to be grim.

Now, before you scream, "FUD", let me clarify that I think crypto currency has already proven to have a bright future.  I just think the bonanza days are about done.  Of course, I'm not selling my video cards just yet but I don't hold much hope for them being useful again.  And my two thoughts above probably aren't all that original... just seemed like it is relevant to what is actually happening in the crypto economy. 

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September 23, 2014, 02:10:11 AM
 #2

The mining hash power is too centralized in the few operators. The top 1% of adresses hold most of the bitcoin. It will certainly affect the adoption rate by masses. The usablity and incredibility should be applied by the real situation.  But it is our hypothesized theory, which needs time to confirm  in the open market.

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September 23, 2014, 03:18:19 AM
 #3

My opinion is that BTC value may be degraded as other crypto currencies take root
Fortunately for everyone holding Bitcoin, your opinion doesn't matter one lick. Read and learn:

http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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September 23, 2014, 03:36:03 AM
 #4

My opinion is that BTC value may be degraded as other crypto currencies take root:

1)  A core belief in BTC is the value of cost effective financial mechanisms but other currencies can do this just as well.  Therefore, what may be 'special' about BTC may also be easily duplicated in other similar mechanisms and for just as much if not a better value.

2) The hay-day of independent mining may soon end as the process is industrialized.  Think about it, if everyone could print money, they would.  It's not just that it's illegal, it's also that it's not cost effective for people to manage.  Similar parallels can be drawn to the current scenario.

I'm all for BTC reversing it's current negative trend.  I would even like it if mining were profitable to the layperson.  But the above two thoughts occurred to me and I can see several good reasons for the future of the layperson in crypto currency to be grim.

Now, before you scream, "FUD", let me clarify that I think crypto currency has already proven to have a bright future.  I just think the bonanza days are about done.  Of course, I'm not selling my video cards just yet but I don't hold much hope for them being useful again.  And my two thoughts above probably aren't all that original... just seemed like it is relevant to what is actually happening in the crypto economy. 

Bitcoin can not be degraded in the tradable market by other cryptos. Right now Bitcoin is to cryptos as Gold is to fiat. The basis where the standard that is set. If you watch the market when bitcoin falls in price most if not all other currencies follow suit.  I think the panic syndrome comes into play here. when people see a huge price drop in BTC they get nervous and sell off all the other coins they hafve. some of this helps BTC value and some does not. The ones that do not help are the markets that are not only on the BTC market but the USD market as well. Coins like Litecoin who have their own market that includes a USD market.

Your hay day will not come all that soon, but the end of mining as an individual rapidly approaches, I would not say mining will be industrialized completely but soon mining BTC will be more complicated to get started than its worth. HOWEVER there are ways around this no one said you HAVE to mine BTC did they?

Mining can be profitable and you do not have to mine BTC in order for that to happen, you just have to approach mining with a profitable mindset and not be afraid to do a little research.

And lastly "VIDEO CARDS" I hope this is not the mining potential you are basing this post on, I hope it was more just a phrase more so than the experience that led you to this post Smiley If that is your basis on mining potential I can completely understand why you feel its not profitable LOL One word for you bro ZEUS hahaha
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September 23, 2014, 07:36:09 AM
 #5

1. The network effect is very strong. A competitive coin will have to have a very big advantage in order to displace Bitcoin in any significant way.

2. Contrary to popular myth, mining has never been very profitable. Some miners have had brief technological advantages, but most miners have been only moderately profitable at best.

I find it interesting that different people claim that Bitcoin is dying because a specific aspect is changing -- mining is becoming a professional endeavor, or the price is falling, or the block chain is getting huge, etc.

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September 24, 2014, 01:09:57 AM
 #6

No coin will ever overtake bitcoin.
Good points though.

I agree and thank you.

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grendel25
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September 24, 2014, 01:16:43 AM
 #7

1. The network effect is very strong. A competitive coin will have to have a very big advantage in order to displace Bitcoin in any significant way.

2. Contrary to popular myth, mining has never been very profitable. Some miners have had brief technological advantages, but most miners have been only moderately profitable at best.

I find it interesting that different people claim that Bitcoin is dying because a specific aspect is changing -- mining is becoming a professional endeavor, or the price is falling, or the block chain is getting huge, etc.

I think I agree with you on point 1.  I totally disagree on point 2.  Mining 'was' hugely profitable for many and there are so many examples rather it be miners directly enjoying the rapid boom of BTC, pool managers, cloud mining, pre-miners, and I'm sure the list can go on and on.

As far as your last comment, I assume you weren't talking about my OP.  I never said any coin was dying.  If anything, just profitability of the lay user but I can see how you could misinterpret that to say that it was dying for miners but hopefully understood that I definitely don't think the coins are dying. 

Now, looking at the recent price history, there is more in favor of my argument that BTC is floundering and dilution of value among useful coins may be the heralding of a strong era of crypto currency in general but perhaps at the expense of the primacy of BTC... although BTC will certainly remain king for a while.

..Absolute.......................
..The First Proof of View Cryptocurrency..
.
.
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September 24, 2014, 01:20:55 AM
 #8

http://blog.oleganza.com/post/54121516413/the-universe-wants-one-money
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September 24, 2014, 02:51:22 AM
 #9

The real limits of other crypto currencies is bitcoin prices
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September 24, 2014, 06:16:14 AM
 #10

1. - No, other currencies can't do what bitcoin does. Not even 1/1000th part of it. Because hashing power = security.
2. - Heard alot but noone cares to think why is that bad? So there is no profit for you to run a miner, so what? That was understood from the beginning, that with time due to growing complexity and blockchain size and IO rate only large-scale operations will be able to maintain the blockchain and reap transactional rewards for that. Big players are just like small players were three years ago. Only big. Same risk/reward mechanisms at work.

i am satoshi
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September 24, 2014, 07:25:39 AM
 #11

1. The network effect is very strong. A competitive coin will have to have a very big advantage in order to displace Bitcoin in any significant way.

2. Contrary to popular myth, mining has never been very profitable. Some miners have had brief technological advantages, but most miners have been only moderately profitable at best.

I find it interesting that different people claim that Bitcoin is dying because a specific aspect is changing -- mining is becoming a professional endeavor, or the price is falling, or the block chain is getting huge, etc.

I think I agree with you on point 1.  I totally disagree on point 2.  Mining 'was' hugely profitable for many and there are so many examples rather it be miners directly enjoying the rapid boom of BTC, pool managers, cloud mining, pre-miners, and I'm sure the list can go on and on.

As far as your last comment, I assume you weren't talking about my OP.  I never said any coin was dying.  If anything, just profitability of the lay user but I can see how you could misinterpret that to say that it was dying for miners but hopefully understood that I definitely don't think the coins are dying. 

Now, looking at the recent price history, there is more in favor of my argument that BTC is floundering and dilution of value among useful coins may be the heralding of a strong era of crypto currency in general but perhaps at the expense of the primacy of BTC... although BTC will certainly remain king for a while.

Holding bitcoins has been profitable for many, but mining itself has not.

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September 23, 2018, 04:17:37 PM
 #12

My opinion is that BTC value may be degraded as other crypto currencies take root:

1)  A core belief in BTC is the value of cost effective financial mechanisms but other currencies can do this just as well.  Therefore, what may be 'special' about BTC may also be easily duplicated in other similar mechanisms and for just as much if not a better value.

2) The hay-day of independent mining may soon end as the process is industrialized.  Think about it, if everyone could print money, they would.  It's not just that it's illegal, it's also that it's not cost effective for people to manage.  Similar parallels can be drawn to the current scenario.

I'm all for BTC reversing it's current negative trend.  I would even like it if mining were profitable to the layperson.  But the above two thoughts occurred to me and I can see several good reasons for the future of the layperson in crypto currency to be grim.

Now, before you scream, "FUD", let me clarify that I think crypto currency has already proven to have a bright future.  I just think the bonanza days are about done.  Of course, I'm not selling my video cards just yet but I don't hold much hope for them being useful again.  And my two thoughts above probably aren't all that original... just seemed like it is relevant to what is actually happening in the crypto economy. 

Bitcoin can not be degraded in the tradable market by other cryptos. Right now Bitcoin is to cryptos as Gold is to fiat. The basis where the standard that is set. If you watch the market when bitcoin falls in price most if not all other currencies follow suit.  I think the panic syndrome comes into play here. when people see a huge price drop in BTC they get nervous and sell off all the other coins they hafve. some of this helps BTC value and some does not. The ones that do not help are the markets that are not only on the BTC market but the USD market as well. Coins like Litecoin who have their own market that includes a USD market.

Your hay day will not come all that soon, but the end of mining as an individual rapidly approaches, I would not say mining will be industrialized completely but soon mining BTC will be more complicated to get started than its worth. HOWEVER there are ways around this no one said you HAVE to mine BTC did they?

Mining can be profitable and you do not have to mine BTC in order for that to happen, you just have to approach mining with a profitable mindset and not be afraid to do a little research.

And lastly "VIDEO CARDS" I hope this is not the mining potential you are basing this post on, I hope it was more just a phrase more so than the experience that led you to this post Smiley If that is your basis on mining potential I can completely understand why you feel its not profitable LOL One word for you bro ZEUS hahaha

Fast forward to 2018 where crypto exchanges are adding "fiat to alt coin" deposit/withdrawals options instead of solely bitcoin to fiat (crptsy?, BTC-E?). What if when altcoins dump (along side bitcoin), sellers take the cash out of the crypto market in its entirety and don’t go back into Bitcoin as they did in 2014. In the past the alts acted like “out of the money” support for bitcoin price and capital would flow back into bitcoin after a dip. This created capital not leaving the crypto ecosystem but now it easily can because of more exchanges enabling alt coin to fiat withdrawals. This could prolong the bear market of bitcoin to potentially be even worse than the 2014-2016 bear market. Everyone expects this bear market not to be as bad as the last one, but is anyone considering the scenario where this bear market could be longer?
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September 23, 2018, 05:45:05 PM
 #13

Now, looking at the recent price history, there is more in favor of my argument that BTC is floundering and dilution of value among useful coins may be the heralding of a strong era of crypto currency in general but perhaps at the expense of the primacy of BTC... although BTC will certainly remain king for a while.

I haven't seen anything in favor of your argument. You could point at the "recent price history" after any bubble and extrapolate that BTC's heyday is over, but you'd be wrong, and repeatedly so. Just ask Prof Bitcorn.

People have been predicting BTC would be overtaken by altcoins since altcoins existed. And sure, Bitcoin is not inherently valuable or unique; it can be duplicated. The fact that an open source protocol can be duplicated or that home mining may be unprofitable are both completely irrelevant to Bitcoin adoption. New users aren't miners, and they haven't been for years now.

Now that there are so many more altcoins, yet few offer any useful use cases and all pale in comparison to BTC's security, how has anything changed?

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September 23, 2018, 08:42:36 PM
 #14

I can't help but feel that the current situation with mining and the overall spread of BTC is far from what was envisioned when Satoshi set out to create bitcoin. The large miners like the large holders have too much power, especially I would say when it comes to mining. I believe the idea was that so many people in different corners of the community could pool together to help facilitate transactions and be rewarded a small but fair amount for doing so instead of a few large groups earning millions as they have a stranglehold on the market.

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September 25, 2018, 05:31:46 PM
 #15

Yrah i get the point. It's going to be less ptofitable for individual miners to compete with more capable groups. Considering the cost they have to commit to get very little profit. With the boom on crypto market last year, we're probably going to have less individual miners

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September 25, 2018, 05:54:12 PM
 #16

...
Fast forward to 2018 where crypto exchanges are adding "fiat to alt coin" deposit/withdrawals options instead of solely bitcoin to fiat (crptsy?, BTC-E?). What if when altcoins dump (along side bitcoin), sellers take the cash out of the crypto market in its entirety and don’t go back into Bitcoin as they did in 2014. In the past the alts acted like “out of the money” support for bitcoin price and capital would flow back into bitcoin after a dip. This created capital not leaving the crypto ecosystem but now it easily can because of more exchanges enabling alt coin to fiat withdrawals. This could prolong the bear market of bitcoin to potentially be even worse than the 2014-2016 bear market. Everyone expects this bear market not to be as bad as the last one, but is anyone considering the scenario where this bear market could be longer?

the altcoin market has matured a lot compared to 2014 and altcoins are so much better now than before but even with all that they still remain pretty terrible coins and are still considered as the child market which is used to fuel the pockets of the whales who want an easy coin to pump and dump.

regarding fiat to altcoin markets, there are none that is being used. however there are lots of stable-altcoin to altcoin markets such as USDT which is NOT fiat. and so far it has been used for the purpose of escaping the dumps whenever bitcoin price is going down. which means the same story as always is still going on.

in the past or the present or the near future altcoins have acted as a way for traders to make more money. otherwise the volume of BTC/ALT wouldn't have been the highest volume compared to volume of ALT/ALT or as you want ALT/FIAT. for example ETH which is the biggest coin based on hype and pumps has a ration of 0.14 when you compare its total volume in ETH/BTC markets and ETH/USD, EUR, CNY, JPY GBP

in short if bitcoin's bear market starts up again you can kiss altcoins good bye as they will continue dropping so much harder. you can see the examples of it today and every other day for the pat 9 years. today: bitcoin -3%, most altcoins like ETH: >-10%

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September 25, 2018, 06:50:45 PM
 #17

No coin will ever overtake bitcoin.
Good points though.

I agree and thank you.


As I also think, very little is expected that will ever appear something better than Bitcoin. Bitcoin seems just to strong for other cryptocurrencies to overtake him. Of course we cant say that this will never happen in the future.
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September 25, 2018, 08:29:47 PM
 #18

My opinion is that BTC value may be degraded as other crypto currencies take root
Fortunately for everyone holding Bitcoin, your opinion doesn't matter one lick. Read and learn:

http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

I agree. bitcoin will only be worth more in the future, unlike 99 percent of worthless altcoins that we have now. There is nothing close to bitcoin and there wont be for a long time
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