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Author Topic: OFFICIAL DICEBITCO.IN ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT THE SKIPPED NONCES INCIDENT  (Read 5252 times)
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leannemckim46
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September 20, 2014, 10:03:23 PM
 #41

There is one aspect of that story that's still bothering me (well there is more than one TBH, but I'm trying to pretend now that it's true). They said the the rogue employee "had to chose manually which player to ‘cheat’". How did he do that if he didn't have access to the production database? Some kind of a backdoor in the UI? All we've seen was two or three lines of code that don't really explain much. I think at the very least DB should have published the whole commit. This is one of those things that would have gone a long way towards credibility.

Good point.

The three line screenshot didn't really show anything. Could we see the whole diff he submitted? The condition for when to apply the nonce-skip would be interesting. I too wonder how the rogue employee was able to chose manually which players to cheat when he didn't have access to the db.
If he was watching the live bets then the rogue employee could get a good idea as to who had a lot of money in their account, or he could have looked at the "high rollers" section to see who where larger betters.

He could have just picked "x" number of random users to have nonces skipped for, and it just so happened that the first one to notice was a whale and the rest didn't actually bet until it was discovered and simply never bet anything while the code was in effect.

By "not having DB access" they could mean that the employee did not have the ability to write/make changes to the DB but could "read" the DB. If this was the case he could simply pick "x" number of users who would bet large amounts.

He could have used the bet verifier to check how much was wagered on random bets by each user and picked users who had made large bets. (I have not actually used the bet verifier prior to when they disabled it so I don't know if this would actually make sense)

The above is nothing more then speculation but all would fit the story that Dicebitco.in gave.

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September 20, 2014, 10:15:57 PM
 #42

refund my 2btc that was stolen from me

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September 20, 2014, 10:40:31 PM
 #43

He could have just picked "x" number of random users to have nonces skipped for, and it just so happened that the first one to notice was a whale and the rest didn't actually bet until it was discovered and simply never bet anything while the code was in effect.

By "not having DB access" they could mean that the employee did not have the ability to write/make changes to the DB but could "read" the DB. If this was the case he could simply pick "x" number of users who would bet large amounts.

He could have used the bet verifier to check how much was wagered on random bets by each user and picked users who had made large bets. (I have not actually used the bet verifier prior to when they disabled it so I don't know if this would actually make sense)

All this could explain how he decided which users were best to target.

None of this explains how he then *manually* targeted those users.

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September 20, 2014, 11:15:40 PM
 #44

There is one aspect of that story that's still bothering me (well there is more than one TBH, but I'm trying to pretend now that it's true). They said the the rogue employee "had to chose manually which player to ‘cheat’". How did he do that if he didn't have access to the production database? Some kind of a backdoor in the UI? All we've seen was two or three lines of code that don't really explain much. I think at the very least DB should have published the whole commit. This is one of those things that would have gone a long way towards credibility.

Good point.

The three line screenshot didn't really show anything. Could we see the whole diff he submitted? The condition for when to apply the nonce-skip would be interesting. I too wonder how the rogue employee was able to chose manually which players to cheat when he didn't have access to the db.

To answer your question there was no backdoor on the UI. Besides the "main" website we also have an application in place that we use to do simple day-to-day operations (such as reseting users password, process manual withdraws etc), an 'admin' application if you like.

In this application the are only stuff that anyone can view (no secret stuff lying around) and do. One of those is that one could view / edit a JSON field on the user that we use primarily for storing meta information (for you techies take a look here: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/static/datatype-json.html) such as last-login, how much time he is active etc, nothing important. He used this schemaless column to store the data he wanted in order to persist the conditions that when met the skipping happened.

Doog, as for the diff I will post it later Smiley

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September 20, 2014, 11:18:39 PM
 #45

He could have just picked "x" number of random users to have nonces skipped for, and it just so happened that the first one to notice was a whale and the rest didn't actually bet until it was discovered and simply never bet anything while the code was in effect.

By "not having DB access" they could mean that the employee did not have the ability to write/make changes to the DB but could "read" the DB. If this was the case he could simply pick "x" number of users who would bet large amounts.

He could have used the bet verifier to check how much was wagered on random bets by each user and picked users who had made large bets. (I have not actually used the bet verifier prior to when they disabled it so I don't know if this would actually make sense)

All this could explain how he decided which users were best to target.

None of this explains how he then *manually* targeted those users.
It could be something along the lines of "this code only applies to users "X" "Y" and "Z" (I am not very familiar with the specific code used so I don't know the exactly language).

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September 20, 2014, 11:18:59 PM
 #46

There's a crucial problem with this explanation, even if one swallows the low odds of Mateo winning the way he did it (was it something around 1:500?). If the developer had access to the seeds of the players at one point, he could potentially contact some players privately and organize to serve them with their individual seeds for the part of the profit. Investors money would not ever be safe this way, a group can drain profits slowly from the site continuously.
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September 20, 2014, 11:26:31 PM
 #47

I have no idea why people are even speculating on how the rogue employee could have sabotaged high rollers when we should be speculating on the plausibility of the rogue employee's existence in the first place.

Note that this was on the night of September 6th, 2014. This was the night before the scandal broke loose.

manl stated that there were no other person working on the site than him and Gerry.

Remember that skipped nonces were found all the way back to August 28th, 2014. So why are some of you debating what the rogue employee could have done rather than the existence of such a rogue employee?
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September 21, 2014, 12:14:53 AM
Last edit: September 21, 2014, 12:25:25 AM by Stunna
 #48

Good luck trying to regain people's trust after potentially scamming over a thousand coins.

I stand by everything I said including the part about the 1000 coins.

I don't think I understand. What 1000 coins are you talking about here?

I see two ways to interpret your "potentially" here:

1) Are you saying they had the potential to steal 1000 BTC? If so, the number is more like 7000, since that's what was in the bankroll that they could have stolen (but instead they allowed investors to withdraw almost all of it).

2) Or are you saying that you think they actually stole 1000 BTC? If so, how? Even if "Mateo" was a site player, he lost more than he won, and it was less than 1000 BTC.

Neither way makes much sense to me. Could you be clearer about what you're actually accusing them of?

The site claims 122,000 coins have been wagered, 300 coins have been delivered to investors and I'd imagine that half of the invested funds if not the majority during the mateo incident were the site's own money.

What likely happened:
1. Mateo appears and chews up a massive chunk of investors funds so dicebitco.in can repay those that were scammed (Think about all the people who divested after finding out the news and already taking substantial losses)
2. Dicebitco.in invests their own funds or has mateo lose to the website after they have a strong % of bankroll.
3. Appear more legitimate/turn a profit

 Obviously variance can occur but given their track record my theory is that they were trying to steal from investors with fake whales and then rig rolls to make up the difference and keep the edge around 1%. It's really a classic scam, they use fraud to keep their profit up which in effect attracts investments which they can scam.

I'm sure they were doing this, what I'm curious is to what extent this was occurring. Is there proof going further back that rolls were being rigged or did dicebitco.in disable their verification so they could tidy up their DB?

There's no way to 100% prove any of this which is exactly why investments is a joke, but I still firmly think there is a significant chance this occurred given that they were 100% found to be intentionally rigging rolls. This could have been a massive and long term undetected scam if nobody detected it and it was only used on large whales.

Draw your own conclusions, I have mine. You probably think I'm biased as they were competition, but I have friends that were personally scammed by dicebitco.in to the rigging and I will never trust them again nor should anyone else. I'd be willing to help Dooglus relaunch his website if we can think up a more provably fair investment scheme just so people have a safe place to invest.

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September 21, 2014, 03:16:52 AM
 #49

Good luck trying to regain people's trust after potentially scamming over a thousand coins.

I stand by everything I said including the part about the 1000 coins.

I don't think I understand. What 1000 coins are you talking about here?

The site claims 122,000 coins have been wagered, 300 coins have been delivered to investors and I'd imagine that half of the invested funds if not the majority during the mateo incident were the site's own money.

It took me a while to understand the relevance of those numbers. I now think you mean the following:

Since 122k coins were wagered, the expected profit is 1220 BTC. The actual profit is just 300 BTC of which half were earned by the site itself. So the profit is 820 short because the site stole it, and they also earned 150 from Mateo's loss, so that's a total of 970 BTC they've taken.

Is that it?

Just-Dice only earned 0.35% of turnover even though the house edge was 1%. The shortfall was something like 34k BTC. I hope you don't think we stole that too. As you've no doubt noticed on PrimeDice the variance is huge when the house edge is just 1%.

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September 21, 2014, 04:00:56 AM
 #50

Everyone knows gambling is rigged, just stop.

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September 21, 2014, 04:03:12 AM
 #51

I have no idea why people are even speculating on how the rogue employee could have sabotaged high rollers when we should be speculating on the plausibility of the rogue employee's existence in the first place.

Note that this was on the night of September 6th, 2014. This was the night before the scandal broke loose.

manl stated that there were no other person working on the site than him and Gerry.

Remember that skipped nonces were found all the way back to August 28th, 2014. So why are some of you debating what the rogue employee could have done rather than the existence of such a rogue employee?

Do you think that they would tell us that they didn't make the site themselves and instead hired another coder? I run an altcoin creation service and none of my customers prefer their communities to know that I created their coin for them.

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September 21, 2014, 08:34:17 AM
 #52

How DB allowed withdrawals for big ammounts from COLD STORAGE without verify???
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September 21, 2014, 10:14:57 AM
 #53

Quote
Draw your own conclusions, I have mine. You probably think I'm biased as they were competition, but I have friends that were personally scammed by dicebitco.in to the rigging and I will never trust them again nor should anyone else. I'd be willing to help Dooglus relaunch his website if we can think up a more provably fair investment scheme just so people have a safe place to invest.

This is what I think Stunna wanted to say but it was not clear enough.

You should not trust anyone except him and Primedice.

Dice sites with invest option are dangerous because max profit easily can go above 20BTC and that's the max on primedice. This makes them more interesting then PD and they attract more whales while PD is left with faucet players.

All Stunna cares and wants is Primedice to be largest dice site and he will do everything he can to trash his competition.

One thing I don't understand, why there is a such need to come to competitors site and write anything in their thread? Especially trash talk and your own negative opinion and theories.

I'm not defending DB, I personably think they F*****UP and I would never invest or play there.

As for Primedice and Stunna honesty, here are some facts I did notice, you make your own decisions.

1. Primedice 2
 - highest paid signature campaign
 - ton of money thrown away on signatures, faucet etc.
 - A few if any users with positive account
 - People complaining of PD being rigged because server hash was changing all the time, overall shady provably fair where you had to wait 24h for secret seed.

2. Primedice 3 released
 - new provably fair introduced (proper one)
 - faucet reduced
 - signature campaign reduced totally, members dropped...suddenly there is no extra money for this
 - a LOT more people start to win, more people with positive accounts
 - overall cutting costs wherever they can

To me this means that they stole shit load of BTC on PD2 and now playing to be honest people helping others not to get scammed.

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September 21, 2014, 10:36:23 AM
Last edit: September 22, 2014, 03:52:25 PM by Stunna
 #54

Quote
Draw your own conclusions, I have mine. You probably think I'm biased as they were competition, but I have friends that were personally scammed by dicebitco.in to the rigging and I will never trust them again nor should anyone else. I'd be willing to help Dooglus relaunch his website if we can think up a more provably fair investment scheme just so people have a safe place to invest.

This is what I think Stunna wanted to say but it was not clear enough.

You should not trust anyone except him and Primedice.

Dice sites with invest option are dangerous because max profit easily can go above 20BTC and that's the max on primedice. This makes them more interesting then PD and they attract more whales while PD is left with faucet players.

All Stunna cares and wants is Primedice to be largest dice site and he will do everything he can to trash his competition.

One thing I don't understand, why there is a such need to come to competitors site and write anything in their thread? Especially trash talk and your own negative opinion and theories.

I'm not defending DB, I personably think they F*****UP and I would never invest or play there.

As for Primedice and Stunna honesty, here are some facts I did notice, you make your own decisions.

1. Primedice 2
 - highest paid signature campaign
 - ton of money thrown away on signatures, faucet etc.
 - A few if any users with positive account
 - People complaining of PD being rigged because server hash was changing all the time, overall shady provably fair where you had to wait 24h for secret seed.

2. Primedice 3 released
 - new provably fair introduced (proper one)
 - faucet reduced
 - signature campaign reduced totally, members dropped...suddenly there is no extra money for this
 - a LOT more people start to win, more people with positive accounts
 - overall cutting costs wherever they can

To me this means that they stole shit load of BTC on PD2 and now playing to be honest people helping others not to get scammed.



This is the most illogical string of thoughts I've seen on this thread. I think it's safe to say that primedice is the biggest bitcoin gambling site at the moment and isn't struggling financially.
1. Faucet was reduced as our userbase has increased by 5x which has attracted the attention of more people looking to exploit it. Faucet is still higher than PD2 faucet on average (our PD2 faucet was 250 for non-whitelisted users, now anyone can get to a 10,000+sat faucet by wagering).
2. Signature campaign was supposed to close several months ago, it hasn't been very effective in many months and has contributed to forum spam while being a major hassle to run.
3. There are more winners and more losers given that the our userbase has increased significantly
4. If I had bad intentions couldn't I just launch an investment site myself and undetectably scam millions?

If you want to debate me do it from your main account, I'm well aware that you are either the founder of luckynumber or an admin and have used that account for ill actions: https://bitcointalk.to/index.php?topic=621659.0 . I know that you are just trying to dodge negative trust on your other account and are farming trusts right now to launch your new scammy investment site. I felt extremely deceived when I talked to you via PM and gave you my reasons for why I felt the way I did about LN and it turned out that you were proven to be giftcoins/luckynumber. I'm not surprised that you choose to blast me at any possible opportunity granted that I did the same with your website, but please grow a pair of balls and do it properly.





Good luck trying to regain people's trust after potentially scamming over a thousand coins.

I stand by everything I said including the part about the 1000 coins.

I don't think I understand. What 1000 coins are you talking about here?

The site claims 122,000 coins have been wagered, 300 coins have been delivered to investors and I'd imagine that half of the invested funds if not the majority during the mateo incident were the site's own money.

It took me a while to understand the relevance of those numbers. I now think you mean the following:

Since 122k coins were wagered, the expected profit is 1220 BTC. The actual profit is just 300 BTC of which half were earned by the site itself. So the profit is 820 short because the site stole it, and they also earned 150 from Mateo's loss, so that's a total of 970 BTC they've taken.

Is that it?

Just-Dice only earned 0.35% of turnover even though the house edge was 1%. The shortfall was something like 34k BTC. I hope you don't think we stole that too. As you've no doubt noticed on PrimeDice the variance is huge when the house edge is just 1%.

I wasn't implying that was the case with JD, obviously there is a chance of that being the case although I personally lean against that belief. That's how ridiculous these types of investments are, you're a trustworthy person but we ultimately have to take you at your word for 10k-20k coins. Even you'd agree that level of trust is ridiculous, now imagine doing the same with someone completely brand new in the community who has a proven scam record.

I think the possibility is rather high of this being the case on DB given their track record. Basically what I alleged is Dicebitco.in is a proven scam and had the opportunity to discretely steal ~1000 coins and given the fact that they are indeed proven scammers that possibility seems rather likely. If you had nonce-skipped on JD I probably would have accused you of the same thing. After all if someone is going to detectably scam wouldn't you think they would also undetectably do so? The point I'm trying to make it someone who has committed a proven scam should not be given benefit of the doubt, if you think they still deserve that then I think you're naive.

My opinions with regards to investments aren't very popular and I stand in an extremely biased position, but ultimately so many people in this community lack common sense and I'm just trying to provide some balanced argument. The idea that I'm trashing investment sites because I'm greedy or can't stand competition is a recurring argument. I'm pretty sure I'd stand to make much more if I allowed investment on primedice, the risk to investors is too high though and I don't think I'm worthy of that level of trust & responsibility nor can I figure out a way to make it provably fair.

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September 21, 2014, 11:14:09 AM
 #55

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Draw your own conclusions, I have mine. You probably think I'm biased as they were competition, but I have friends that were personally scammed by dicebitco.in to the rigging and I will never trust them again nor should anyone else. I'd be willing to help Dooglus relaunch his website if we can think up a more provably fair investment scheme just so people have a safe place to invest.

This is what I think Stunna wanted to say but it was not clear enough.

You should not trust anyone except him and Primedice.

Dice sites with invest option are dangerous because max profit easily can go above 20BTC and that's the max on primedice. This makes them more interesting then PD and they attract more whales while PD is left with faucet players.

All Stunna cares and wants is Primedice to be largest dice site and he will do everything he can to trash his competition.

One thing I don't understand, why there is a such need to come to competitors site and write anything in their thread? Especially trash talk and your own negative opinion and theories.

I'm not defending DB, I personably think they F*****UP and I would never invest or play there.

As for Primedice and Stunna honesty, here are some facts I did notice, you make your own decisions.

1. Primedice 2
 - highest paid signature campaign
 - ton of money thrown away on signatures, faucet etc.
 - A few if any users with positive account
 - People complaining of PD being rigged because server hash was changing all the time, overall shady provably fair where you had to wait 24h for secret seed.

2. Primedice 3 released
 - new provably fair introduced (proper one)
 - faucet reduced
 - signature campaign reduced totally, members dropped...suddenly there is no extra money for this
 - a LOT more people start to win, more people with positive accounts
 - overall cutting costs wherever they can

To me this means that they stole shit load of BTC on PD2 and now playing to be honest people helping others not to get scammed.



This is the most illogical string of thoughts I've seen on this thread. I think it's safe to say that primedice is the biggest bitcoin gambling site at the moment and isn't struggling financially.
1. Faucet was reduced as our userbase has increased by 5x which has attracted the attention of more people looking to exploit it. Faucet is still higher than PD2 faucet on average (our PD2 faucet was 250 for non-whitelisted users, now anyone can get to a 10,000+sat faucet by wagering).
2. Signature campaign was supposed to close several months ago, it hasn't been very effective in many months and has contributed to forum spam while being a major hassle to run.
3. There are more winners and more losers given that the our userbase has increased significantly
4. If I had bad intentions couldn't I just launch an investment site myself and undetectably scam millions?

If you want to debate me do it from your main account, I'm well aware that you are either the founder of luckynumber or an admin and have used that account for ill actions: https://bitcointalk.to/index.php?topic=621659.0 . I know that you are just trying to dodge negative trust on your other account and are farming trusts right now to launch your new scammy investment site. I felt extremely deceived when I talked to you via PM and gave you my reasons for why I felt the way I did about LN and it turned out that you were proven to be giftcoins/luckynumber. I'm not surprised that you choose to blast me at any possible opportunity granted that I did the same with your website, but please grow a pair of balls and do it properly.



If you check your profile you'll notice I gave you one extra reason to hate me. Time to move onto the next account, your princess is in another castle.



Good luck trying to regain people's trust after potentially scamming over a thousand coins.

I stand by everything I said including the part about the 1000 coins.

I don't think I understand. What 1000 coins are you talking about here?

The site claims 122,000 coins have been wagered, 300 coins have been delivered to investors and I'd imagine that half of the invested funds if not the majority during the mateo incident were the site's own money.

It took me a while to understand the relevance of those numbers. I now think you mean the following:

Since 122k coins were wagered, the expected profit is 1220 BTC. The actual profit is just 300 BTC of which half were earned by the site itself. So the profit is 820 short because the site stole it, and they also earned 150 from Mateo's loss, so that's a total of 970 BTC they've taken.

Is that it?

Just-Dice only earned 0.35% of turnover even though the house edge was 1%. The shortfall was something like 34k BTC. I hope you don't think we stole that too. As you've no doubt noticed on PrimeDice the variance is huge when the house edge is just 1%.

I wasn't implying that was the case with JD, obviously there is a chance of that being the case although I personally lean against that belief. That's how ridiculous these types of investments are, you're a trustworthy person but we ultimately have to take you at your word for 10k-20k coins. Even you'd agree that level of trust is ridiculous, now imagine doing the same with someone completely brand new in the community who has a proven scam record.

I think the possibility is rather high of this being the case on DB given their track record. Basically what I alleged is Dicebitco.in is a proven scam and had the opportunity to discretely steal ~1000 coins and given the fact that they are indeed proven scammers that possibility seems rather likely. My opinions with regards to investments aren't very popular and I stand in an extremely biased position, but ultimately so many people in this community lack common sense and I'm just trying to provide some balanced argument.

Stunna, again you are showing what kind of person you are lol

You should get banned for abusing trust system so often, someone writes something you don't like and BAM you are giving them negative trust...this shows a nice picture about it...And I did expect this form you to be honest.

I'm no alt of giftcoins, you are so wrong about it, I had money there but not any more, seems you missed my empty signature space. I'm not planing to launch any dice site so you are again wrong.

If I ever launch any site related to gambling feel free to give me negative trust as much as you want, let it all be red but until then you should remove it from my account as this is pure abuse.  You don't give someone negative trust based on your assumptions.
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September 21, 2014, 11:25:27 AM
Last edit: September 21, 2014, 11:43:24 AM by Stunna
 #56


Stunna, again you are showing what kind of person you are lol

You should get banned for abusing trust system so often, someone writes something you don't like and BAM you are giving them negative trust...this shows a nice picture about it...And I did expect this form you to be honest.

I'm no alt of giftcoins, you are so wrong about it, I had money there but not any more, seems you missed my empty signature space. I'm not planing to launch any dice site so you are again wrong.

If I ever launch any site related to gambling feel free to give me negative trust as much as you want, let it all be red but until then you should remove it from my account as this is pure abuse.  You don't give someone negative trust based on your assumptions.


I'm not the only one that feels this way, I was actually just invited to an ongoing PM thread moments ago where people you had done deals with were suspicious that you were farming trust.

First message is from Sept 1:


Also this isn't exactly gut instinct or abuse, if you review the reference there is actual proof. I hope you get solid use out of all the giftcards you bought.



Also this was just sent via that PM thread, I've withheld names but they are free to chime in themselves:



^ That's a pretty solid point right there.


Anyways this isn't a thread about you and your fraud aspirations, let's try and stay on topic.

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September 21, 2014, 11:56:32 AM
 #57


Stunna, again you are showing what kind of person you are lol

You should get banned for abusing trust system so often, someone writes something you don't like and BAM you are giving them negative trust...this shows a nice picture about it...And I did expect this form you to be honest.

I'm no alt of giftcoins, you are so wrong about it, I had money there but not any more, seems you missed my empty signature space. I'm not planing to launch any dice site so you are again wrong.

If I ever launch any site related to gambling feel free to give me negative trust as much as you want, let it all be red but until then you should remove it from my account as this is pure abuse.  You don't give someone negative trust based on your assumptions.


I'm not the only one that feels this way, I was actually just invited to an ongoing PM thread moments ago where people you had done deals with were suspicious that you were farming trust.

First message is from Sept 1:


Also this isn't exactly gut instinct or abuse, if you review the reference there is actual proof. I hope you get solid use out of all the giftcards you bought.



Also this was just sent via that PM thread, I've withheld names but they are free to chime in themselves:



^ That's a pretty solid point right there.


Anyways this isn't a thread about you and your fraud aspirations, let's try and stay on topic.


that user that gave you this info above is "goose20", no need for him to hide...he already removed his positive trust and this is fine, others can do the same if they wish

Sorry for highjacking this post....dicebitcoin you can delete our rubbish talk now Smiley
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September 21, 2014, 12:02:24 PM
 #58

If he didn't have access to production/database servers, but could upload code himself unchecked, what makes you guys think he wouldn't add any query or even a URL that reveals the auth details or seeds for himself?

They've addressed this before.

He couldn't upload code himself. They uploaded his code for him without properly testing it. When they found out that his code was malicious they backed out his change.

While the code was in place he could potentially have grabbed a server seed, but apparently he randomized after his change was backed out, meaning he no longer had a way of reading his seeds.

I think that's how it goes, anyway.

That's what they say it goes, but did we see any proof that is actually how it played out ?

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September 21, 2014, 07:52:50 PM
 #59

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Draw your own conclusions, I have mine. You probably think I'm biased as they were competition, but I have friends that were personally scammed by dicebitco.in to the rigging and I will never trust them again nor should anyone else. I'd be willing to help Dooglus relaunch his website if we can think up a more provably fair investment scheme just so people have a safe place to invest.

This is what I think Stunna wanted to say but it was not clear enough.

You should not trust anyone except him and Primedice.

Dice sites with invest option are dangerous because max profit easily can go above 20BTC and that's the max on primedice. This makes them more interesting then PD and they attract more whales while PD is left with faucet players.

All Stunna cares and wants is Primedice to be largest dice site and he will do everything he can to trash his competition.

One thing I don't understand, why there is a such need to come to competitors site and write anything in their thread? Especially trash talk and your own negative opinion and theories.

I'm not defending DB, I personably think they F*****UP and I would never invest or play there.

As for Primedice and Stunna honesty, here are some facts I did notice, you make your own decisions.

1. Primedice 2
 - highest paid signature campaign
 - ton of money thrown away on signatures, faucet etc.
 - A few if any users with positive account
 - People complaining of PD being rigged because server hash was changing all the time, overall shady provably fair where you had to wait 24h for secret seed.

2. Primedice 3 released
 - new provably fair introduced (proper one)
 - faucet reduced
 - signature campaign reduced totally, members dropped...suddenly there is no extra money for this
 - a LOT more people start to win, more people with positive accounts
 - overall cutting costs wherever they can

To me this means that they stole shit load of BTC on PD2 and now playing to be honest people helping others not to get scammed.



This is the most illogical string of thoughts I've seen on this thread. I think it's safe to say that primedice is the biggest bitcoin gambling site at the moment and isn't struggling financially.
1. Faucet was reduced as our userbase has increased by 5x which has attracted the attention of more people looking to exploit it. Faucet is still higher than PD2 faucet on average (our PD2 faucet was 250 for non-whitelisted users, now anyone can get to a 10,000+sat faucet by wagering).
2. Signature campaign was supposed to close several months ago, it hasn't been very effective in many months and has contributed to forum spam while being a major hassle to run.
3. There are more winners and more losers given that the our userbase has increased significantly
4. If I had bad intentions couldn't I just launch an investment site myself and undetectably scam millions?

If you want to debate me do it from your main account, I'm well aware that you are either the founder of luckynumber or an admin and have used that account for ill actions: https://bitcointalk.to/index.php?topic=621659.0 . I know that you are just trying to dodge negative trust on your other account and are farming trusts right now to launch your new scammy investment site. I felt extremely deceived when I talked to you via PM and gave you my reasons for why I felt the way I did about LN and it turned out that you were proven to be giftcoins/luckynumber. I'm not surprised that you choose to blast me at any possible opportunity granted that I did the same with your website, but please grow a pair of balls and do it properly.



If you check your profile you'll notice I gave you one extra reason to hate me. Time to move onto the next account, your princess is in another castle.

This is very concerning. It is never appropriate to respond to criticism (valid or not) with negative trust. You are essentially saying that anyone that does not agree with you automatically gets fugitive trust. I am not sure if your accusation is true or not, however I am almost certain that your accusation is motivated by the criticism that was given to you.

I think you were quick to jump to conclusions regarding the DB scandal as well. I would personally conclude that your problem with DB is the fact that they had previously posed a serious threat to competition with PD and you do not wish to compete. This is evidenced by the fact that you are continuing to make fact-less accusations against them that are based on nothing but speculation. IIRC you had put your negative trust on the DB forum account while the scandal was still unfolding, which likely fed the trolls that caused them to wish to abandon their project temporarily. I personally think they f'ed up and would not trust them with my money, but as a community I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

I would say that you appear to be trustworthy and that you appear to run your site on the "up and up" however I also think you are involved in some very sketchy business
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September 22, 2014, 12:08:16 PM
 #60

I wasn't implying that was the case with JD, obviously there is a chance of that being the case although I personally lean against that belief. That's how ridiculous these types of investments are, you're a trustworthy person but we ultimately have to take you at your word for 10k-20k coins. Even you'd agree that level of trust is ridiculous, now imagine doing the same with someone completely brand new in the community who has a proven scam record.

lol, 'I wasn't implying that with JD, but I'm still totally implying that with JD.'

You don't even realize what you're saying.

Also, I agree with the post directly above this. You're abusing the trust system by leaving negative trust based on your suspicion on an issue that doesn't even concern you. Your motivations have been made clear here, and everywhere else you post. You continue to bash JD in a passive-aggressive manner, even though you say you're not implying certain things while continuing to imply them in the same sentence. You bash ever other site or site owner that is competition, and even if every single one of them is a legit point, your paranoia has led you to abuse the trust system to preemptively trash people who you think might start a competing site in the future.

Dude, get a hold of yourself. You're not being an asset to the community when you act this way.
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