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Author Topic: Cannot handle the fact that al Qaeda is being supported by the U.S. government  (Read 1908 times)
RodeoX
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May 01, 2014, 07:10:16 PM
 #21

USA created Al Qaeda that is known fact. USA supports Al Qaeda in Syria is also a known fact. The bottom line USA only cares about his interest and  don't cares who he supports.
Wrong, wrong, and ...right.

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May 02, 2014, 12:47:21 AM
 #22

USA created Al Qaeda that is known fact. USA supports Al Qaeda in Syria is also a known fact. The bottom line USA only cares about his interest and  don't cares who he supports.
Wrong, wrong, and ...right.

Right, right and right.

1. USA helped to create and supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. This Mujahideen later transformed in to Al Qaeda.
2. USA supports Al Qaeda in Syria against Assad.
3. Yes. USA only cares about his interest and  don't cares who he supports.
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May 02, 2014, 02:38:42 AM
 #23

I hate to say it but that is pretty spot on with the truth as I see it.  They will do almost anything to get their way no matter how dirty they have to get their hands.
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May 02, 2014, 05:51:23 PM
 #24

USA created Al Qaeda that is known fact. USA supports Al Qaeda in Syria is also a known fact. The bottom line USA only cares about his interest and  don't cares who he supports.
Wrong, wrong, and ...right.

Right, right and right.

1. USA helped to create and supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. This Mujahideen later transformed in to Al Qaeda.
2. USA supports Al Qaeda in Syria against Assad.
3. Yes. USA only cares about his interest and  don't cares who he supports.
1. Well aware of this. My own father had a major role in that operation. The Mujahideen was a blanket term for the resistance army fighters. It was centered around the northern alliance.  Later, OBL and the Taliban formed and became bitter enemies of the Mujahideen. For example, a few days before 9/11 the "Lion of Panjshir" (Massoud) was assassinated in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda and the Talibs under Mulla Omar knew well that a war would soon be there and they had to kill the Mujahideen leaders of the northern alliance. It has become fashionable among some Taliban groups to call themselves Mujahideen, but to say that the fighters from the 80's became the Taliban is largely incorrect.

2. Totally wrong.  There are HUNDREDS of groups fighting in Syria. Some are way more religiously radical than even Al Qaeda, others seek a secular state. What little support is handed out by the US goes to secular groups such as the FSA. It is hard to keep some FSA fighter from selling his kit to finance his desertion, but Al Qaeda is a sworn enemy of the west. It would be considered punishable by death to cooperate in any way with the US. It would also be treason in the US to supply or help them in any way. Civil wars rarely have just two sides. Syria is an extreme example of just how fragmented the fighting can become.  

3. It is true that, like all nations on Earth, the US is self interested. That is what diplomats do. Sometimes you even have to work with less desirable elements. But that can blow up in your face and effort is made to find the right people. War is a messy business full of compromise.
I have spent time in the region and speak some Arabic. Like you might think it is much more nuanced than the story in the news. We (the US) have done a piss poor job since 9/11 at understanding what is happening in the Islamic world. That has benefited radical groups and so I'm not defending our thoughtful policy. But if you honestly think US forces would ever even consider working with the base, then you need to look at more informed sources.  

Here is a list of SOME of the Syrian groups fighting the civil war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_groups_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

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May 02, 2014, 06:15:12 PM
Last edit: May 02, 2014, 09:31:22 PM by practicaldreamer
 #25


2. Totally wrong.  There are HUNDREDS of groups fighting in Syria. Some are way more religiously radical than even Al Qaeda, others seek a secular state. What little support is handed out by the US goes to secular groups such as the FSA.


You may be right about this - and it sounds like you know way more about the situation out there than I do - but aren't you splitting hairs a little ? The factions you mention are, after all, all fighting on the same side. Trying to absolve the US of responsibility because they choose to fund the bishops and not the knights/rooks etc. is a little disingenuous.

   Its the same in the UK - BBC reporting of Syria has now shifted to sympathy for the mothers of radical young muslims going out there to fight with the rebels  Huh It wasn't too long back the same young men were being villifed post the London 7/7 terrorist attacks. Now they are fine (freedom fighters even) because they are willing pawns in some bigger game of geo-politics being waged by the US.

WTF is going on here ?
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May 02, 2014, 08:21:55 PM
 #26

WTF is going on here ?

It is very confused now. The Kurds are fighting for a homeland in the north, Hezbollah is fighting the FSA in the south, former Al Qaeda groups are fighting Al Qaeda because they are not radical enough. Some groups are just criminal gangs fighting to steal things. It has devolved into a district by district free for all. What a mess.  Cry

I saw stuff like this in former Yugoslavia. Some of the guys I trained were Muslims who were being radicalized in front of my eyes. They would arrive in hip-hop clothing, eating a ham sandwich while drinking vodka.  A few months later you would see them with a beard, head covered and carrying a Koran. Hard to blame the ones in Bosnia. While the west sat around watching them die, the jihadis came and shed blood with them.

If we had a smart policy in the mid east we would recognize that in that region a friend or enemy is not only for life, it's forever.

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May 04, 2014, 02:34:43 PM
 #27

1. Well aware of this. My own father had a major role in that operation. The Mujahideen was a blanket term for the resistance army fighters. It was centered around the northern alliance.  Later, OBL and the Taliban formed and became bitter enemies of the Mujahideen. For example, a few days before 9/11 the "Lion of Panjshir" (Massoud) was assassinated in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda and the Talibs under Mulla Omar knew well that a war would soon be there and they had to kill the Mujahideen leaders of the northern alliance. It has become fashionable among some Taliban groups to call themselves Mujahideen, but to say that the fighters from the 80's became the Taliban is largely incorrect.

As far as I know, the US supported both the Tajik-dominated groups (Northern Alliance) and the Pathan-dominated groups (Taliban, especially the factions led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Ahmad Shah Ahmadzai).

One of the factions which received the largest amount of support from the CIA was the Hezb-e Islami (Hekmatyar), which formed the backbone of Taliban later.
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May 04, 2014, 09:04:01 PM
 #28

What little support is handed out by the US goes to secular groups such as the FSA.

Hahaha.  Those TOW anti-tank missiles and shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles the U.S. is supplying to Al Qaeda in Syria cost $40,000 each.

"little" indeed.  Cheesy

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May 05, 2014, 04:32:58 PM
 #29

What little support is handed out by the US goes to secular groups such as the FSA.

Hahaha.  Those TOW anti-tank missiles and shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles the U.S. is supplying to Al Qaeda in Syria cost $40,000 each.

"little" indeed.  Cheesy
I have not seen those on the battlefield? I have seen Russian MANPADs like the SA-7 and (Turkish?) Cirit anti-tank rockets used against Assad forces. Where have you seen TOW or Stingers in action?

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May 05, 2014, 04:39:54 PM
 #30

Another point to make is that even if the CIA is not directly arming the Al Qaeda (ISIS) in Syria, they are doing it indirectly. All the Al Qaeda factions in Syria are supported by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, one of the foremost allies of the US. US weapons end up with the ISIS fighters, being routed through the Saudi Arabian agents.  Angry
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May 05, 2014, 05:13:11 PM
 #31

Another point to make is that even if the CIA is not directly arming the Al Qaeda (ISIS) in Syria, they are doing it indirectly. All the Al Qaeda factions in Syria are supported by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, one of the foremost allies of the US. US weapons end up with the ISIS fighters, being routed through the Saudi Arabian agents.  Angry
Ok. Al Qaeda is a sworn enemy of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They (AQAP) are outlawed in the KSA and any challenge to the monarchy is punishable by death.  The House of Saud does, however, provide lots of support to rebel factions. But only to the ones furthering their interest.
I would guess that some of the weapons any nation sends will end up in the wrong hands. They may be captured on the battlefield or sold by troops. It's messy stuff. And I don't how good the GIP is. They may do a crappy job of vetting the groups they supply.

Your other comment about which groups were both mujaheddin and Taliban are good examples. There are certainly people who fought for both. It makes sense that there would be because both wars were, from the Afghan side, about kicking out the foreigners. In fact Osama Bin Laden was one who did. But this is a complicated place and many Afghans were strongly opposed to the relationship that evolved between Mullah Omar and Osama's group in the early 90's.   

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May 05, 2014, 05:42:33 PM
 #32

Where have you seen TOW or Stingers in action?

There are plenty of videos around.  If you speak Arabic, they are easy to find on YouTube via search.

More evil are the chemical weapons the CIA is using against Syria.  

I thought these American mercenaries were using Sarin™, but Mimi the smokin' hot Syrian Girl says in this video it was Chlorine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn6WpYRJPNg

In this video you can see the gas cloud descending...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_V0fIf3MKU


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May 05, 2014, 06:10:51 PM
 #33

Where have you seen TOW or Stingers in action?

There are plenty of videos around.  If you speak Arabic, they are easy to find on YouTube via search.

More evil are the chemical weapons the CIA is using against Syria.  

I thought these American mercenaries were using Sarin™, but Mimi the smokin' hot Syrian Girl says in this video it was Chlorine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn6WpYRJPNg

In this video you can see the gas cloud descending...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_V0fIf3MKU


How are the guys speaking with a Syrian accent American mercenaries?  Is the Nusra front fighting against America while being paid by them? It makes no sense.

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May 05, 2014, 11:37:02 PM
 #34

Stop playing dumb.

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May 06, 2014, 01:41:34 AM
 #35

Al Qaeda is just a buzz word for some centralized terror cell. We know this does not exist and any official acceptance of the name Al Qaeda is most likely because that is what Western Media calls them.

You believe that Al Qaeda doesn't exist? Then who launched the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center, which lead to the deaths of almost 3,000 people? Who is supporting the ISIS in Syria?

Im sure hes gonna say the jews are responsible since they didnt all go to work that very same day it was attacked on 9/11  \
Al Qaeda is very real and there a  bunch of hidden cells all around us.

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May 06, 2014, 06:00:58 AM
 #36

USA created Al Qaeda that is known fact. USA supports Al Qaeda in Syria is also a known fact. The bottom line USA only cares about his interest and  don't cares who he supports.
Wrong, wrong, and ...right.

Right, right and right.

1. USA helped to create and supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. This Mujahideen later transformed in to Al Qaeda.
2. USA supports Al Qaeda in Syria against Assad.
3. Yes. USA only cares about his interest and  don't cares who he supports.
1. Well aware of this. My own father had a major role in that operation. The Mujahideen was a blanket term for the resistance army fighters. It was centered around the northern alliance.  Later, OBL and the Taliban formed and became bitter enemies of the Mujahideen. For example, a few days before 9/11 the "Lion of Panjshir" (Massoud) was assassinated in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda and the Talibs under Mulla Omar knew well that a war would soon be there and they had to kill the Mujahideen leaders of the northern alliance. It has become fashionable among some Taliban groups to call themselves Mujahideen, but to say that the fighters from the 80's became the Taliban is largely incorrect.

2. Totally wrong.  There are HUNDREDS of groups fighting in Syria. Some are way more religiously radical than even Al Qaeda, others seek a secular state. What little support is handed out by the US goes to secular groups such as the FSA. It is hard to keep some FSA fighter from selling his kit to finance his desertion, but Al Qaeda is a sworn enemy of the west. It would be considered punishable by death to cooperate in any way with the US. It would also be treason in the US to supply or help them in any way. Civil wars rarely have just two sides. Syria is an extreme example of just how fragmented the fighting can become.  

3. It is true that, like all nations on Earth, the US is self interested. That is what diplomats do. Sometimes you even have to work with less desirable elements. But that can blow up in your face and effort is made to find the right people. War is a messy business full of compromise.
I have spent time in the region and speak some Arabic. Like you might think it is much more nuanced than the story in the news. We (the US) have done a piss poor job since 9/11 at understanding what is happening in the Islamic world. That has benefited radical groups and so I'm not defending our thoughtful policy. But if you honestly think US forces would ever even consider working with the base, then you need to look at more informed sources.  

Here is a list of SOME of the Syrian groups fighting the civil war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_groups_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

1. In Afganistan USA is fighting against Russia (giving weapons to Mujahideen's) and fighting for the Opium. Talibans destroys 90% of poppy seed, and after ''USA democracy'' in Afganistan now is again poppy seed country. (you know route - Afganistan - Kosovo - Europe)

2. FYI Syria is secular state.
    USA and others trying to destroy Syria (Israel don't love them(hesbolah.....))
   FSA?Huh maybe 10% of all terorist fighter

    Al Qaeda isn't enemy of USA, Al Qaeda, the network, is made by USA for the ''false flag'' operation

NEM NEM NEM NEM NEM NEM NEM NEM NEM
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May 06, 2014, 06:23:57 AM
 #37

1. In Afganistan USA is fighting against Russia (giving weapons to Mujahideen's) and fighting for the Opium. Talibans destroys 90% of poppy seed, and after ''USA democracy'' in Afganistan now is again poppy seed country. (you know route - Afganistan - Kosovo - Europe)

Exactly. And I have good news for Obama.

Afghan opium production explodes despite billions spent, says US report

Quote
A report released Wednesday by Washington’s Afghanistan war watchdog has found that the billions spent by the State and Defense departments on counter-narcotics since 2002 has been for nought. Opium-poppy cultivation takes up 209,000 hectares (516,230 acres) of land in Afghanistan, a 36% increase since 2012.
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May 06, 2014, 11:10:41 AM
 #38

Al Qaeda, the network, is made by USA for the ''false flag'' operation

95% of Americans do not know this.

They have been schooled since childhood to believe what they are shown on television. 

It's a brilliant livestock management system, based upon seven decades of formal scientific study, but very sad.

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May 06, 2014, 02:04:12 PM
 #39

Believe what you want. It does not change the facts. I grew up in house where these things were dinner conversation, decades before 9/11.  I wish they weren't, but Al Qaeda is very real. And they are spreading in the Maghreb, the Levant and everywhere else.

If you think otherwise you can investigate for yourself. But a youtube video or a rant on the internet does not convince me. Facts do persuade me. Got any?

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May 06, 2014, 02:14:33 PM
 #40

Where in this thread has anyone asserted that Al Qaeda is not real?




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