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Author Topic: Pseudoscience is Modern Medicine  (Read 214 times)
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October 09, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Merited by Moloch (3)
 #1

Anybody notice how Pseudoscience and the medical industry have many shared values and ideas...





Perhaps we should stop regulating bodies like the FDA having such loose regulation...
 

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October 09, 2018, 12:21:29 PM
 #2

Interesting how you can replace the word pseudoscience with religion and every sentence becomes true
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October 09, 2018, 01:30:34 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2), Flying Hellfish (2)
 #3

Is this sarcasm? You think modern medicine has no peer review? Has non-repeatable results? Has fixed ideas?

There are hundreds of medical journals being published every month, including some of the most famous journals in the world - The Lancet, The New England Journal of Medicine, The British Medical Journal - which combined are publishing thousands of peer reviewed articles every month. Many journals have Editorials and/or Letters sections, rife with disagreements and criticisms of various studies, methods, practices and the like. I mean, the mere fact that we don't still use chloroform for anesthesia and diabetes is no longer fatal means that medicine doesn't have "fixed ideas".


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October 09, 2018, 03:02:29 PM
 #4

Is this sarcasm? You think modern medicine has no peer review? Has non-repeatable results? Has fixed ideas?

There are hundreds of medical journals being published every month, including some of the most famous journals in the world - The Lancet, The New England Journal of Medicine, The British Medical Journal - which combined are publishing thousands of peer reviewed articles every month. Many journals have Editorials and/or Letters sections, rife with disagreements and criticisms of various studies, methods, practices and the like. I mean, the mere fact that we don't still use chloroform for anesthesia and diabetes is no longer fatal means that medicine doesn't have "fixed ideas".

One "fixed idea" in medicine is that nutrition does not play a significant role in overall health.  It used to be important not long ago. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/

https://www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j4861.full

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jbe/2015/357627/

Only 30% of US medical schools offer a separate nutrition course.

Food has changed over the years and it continues to change, new food substitutes, processed foods are being marketed to the unsuspected public, but the medical profession ignores the changes.

Most people over 40 are either overweight or obese.  Why is that?  Nobody cares.
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October 09, 2018, 04:43:28 PM
 #5

Ever notice how scientists try to accept science as pseudoscience... many of them at least? They have science theory, which they know can change, yet may try to believe that these science theories are reality, when they know that such has not been proven.

Sounds like these scientists are trying to form a "religion of science" that they want us to believe in.

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October 09, 2018, 05:35:24 PM
Merited by FilesFM_Announcements (1)
 #6

Interesting how you can replace the word pseudoscience with religion and every sentence is still true

Interesting how you can replace the word pseudoscience with "Capitalism" and every sentence is still true.

Interesting how you can replace the word pseudoscience with "Nationalism" and every sentence is still true.

The list goes on! Don't blame the 'religion' blame the humans! I dunno why 'humans' don't want to take responsibility for their actions. It would be nice if we can grow up and take the fucking responsibility for our actions instead of looking for things to blame them on.

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October 09, 2018, 07:20:41 PM
 #7

....
One "fixed idea" in medicine is that nutrition does not play a significant role in overall health.  It used to be important not long ago. 
...
I don't think this is a fixed idea in medicine.

It's impossible, becomes of several basic precepts.

Even cases where there is currently a debate on the facts, such as butter vs margarine, red meat vs on red meat, artificial sweeteners...the debate itself falsifies your assertion. Whichever is true, it's not fixed, right?
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October 09, 2018, 09:05:14 PM
 #8

....
One "fixed idea" in medicine is that nutrition does not play a significant role in overall health.  It used to be important not long ago. 
...
I don't think this is a fixed idea in medicine.

It's impossible, becomes of several basic precepts.

Even cases where there is currently a debate on the facts, such as butter vs margarine, red meat vs on red meat, artificial sweeteners...the debate itself falsifies your assertion. Whichever is true, it's not fixed, right?

FYI, I was talking about the medical profession, specifically the medical education. 

Read the content provided in the links in my previous post.  Some medical schools don't teach nutrition at all.
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October 10, 2018, 03:20:35 AM
 #9

....
One "fixed idea" in medicine is that nutrition does not play a significant role in overall health.  It used to be important not long ago. 
...
I don't think this is a fixed idea in medicine.

It's impossible, becomes of several basic precepts.

Even cases where there is currently a debate on the facts, such as butter vs margarine, red meat vs on red meat, artificial sweeteners...the debate itself falsifies your assertion. Whichever is true, it's not fixed, right?

FYI, I was talking about the medical profession, specifically the medical education. 

Read the content provided in the links in my previous post.  Some medical schools don't teach nutrition at all.

Okay, I see where you are coming from. However I can't say that I would agree that "more hours on the subject" is related to a "fixed idea in medicine." Particularly the presence or absence of a course means little.

Also since there have been and continue to be massive shifts in scientific opinion on various nutrition/healthy lifestyle subjects, more hours in medical school would seem to result in more wrong ideas being taught.

These students have all memorized the Krebs cycle, so of course they are a quick study on nutrition.
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October 10, 2018, 11:26:47 AM
 #10

I find it interesting how many people are anti-science or anti-medicine... But, when they are sick, they go to the doctor

Religious people be all like, "God can fix anything if you believe in him"... but they still go to the doctor/hospital whenever they or their children get sick or in an accident... nobody actually trusts God to fix them

We all know that God will not heal an amputee or heal any wound that couldn't heal by itself without God's intervention... it's never happened

"Science - It works bitches" -Richard Dawkins
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October 10, 2018, 11:52:54 AM
 #11

Why do you have to include those stupid pictures? I couldn't be bothered to waste time trying to read them and construct a relationship.

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October 10, 2018, 12:15:51 PM
Merited by Foxpup (4), Flying Hellfish (4)
 #12

Okay, I see where you are coming from. However I can't say that I would agree that "more hours on the subject" is related to a "fixed idea in medicine." Particularly the presence or absence of a course means little.

Absolutely. What af_newbie has pointed out is an apparent failing of US medical schools. It says nothing about nutrition being a "fixed idea". Now, I didn't train and don't work in the US, but where I trained we had a specific nutrition module, covering everything from the basics of carbs/fats/protein, right through to the hormones involved in hunger and the molecular generation of energy, as well as touching on nutrition when relevant to something else we were learning.

Certainly in Intensive Care, nutrition is hugely important to what we do. We have a range of different liquid feeds available, all with their own pros and cons. We have a specialist ICU dietician attend the unit every day to assess patients' nutritional needs and set up a personalized nutritional plan for each patient. There are many studies, with new ones coming out all the time regarding type of nutrition (gastric feed versus intravenous nutrition), type of feed used, timing of feed, rate of delivery, electrolyte/mineral/vitamin supplementation, etc, etc. There is certainly no "fixed idea" that nutrition isn't important, and similarly there is no "fixed idea" that one type of regime of nutrition is the best.

Now, if US med schools aren't teaching nutrition, and US doctors don't feel confident in talking to patients about what constitutes a healthy diet, then it might help to explain why the US has one of highest incidences of obesity in the world.


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October 10, 2018, 01:30:49 PM
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Okay, I see where you are coming from. However I can't say that I would agree that "more hours on the subject" is related to a "fixed idea in medicine." Particularly the presence or absence of a course means little.

Absolutely. What af_newbie has pointed out is an apparent failing of US medical schools. It says nothing about nutrition being a "fixed idea". Now, I didn't train and don't work in the US, but where I trained we had a specific nutrition module, covering everything from the basics of carbs/fats/protein, right through to the hormones involved in hunger and the molecular generation of energy, as well as touching on nutrition when relevant to something else we were learning.

Certainly in Intensive Care, nutrition is hugely important to what we do. We have a range of different liquid feeds available, all with their own pros and cons. We have a specialist ICU dietician attend the unit every day to assess patients' nutritional needs and set up a personalized nutritional plan for each patient. There are many studies, with new ones coming out all the time regarding type of nutrition (gastric feed versus intravenous nutrition), type of feed used, timing of feed, rate of delivery, electrolyte/mineral/vitamin supplementation, etc, etc. There is certainly no "fixed idea" that nutrition isn't important, and similarly there is no "fixed idea" that one type of regime of nutrition is the best.

Now, if US med schools aren't teaching nutrition, and US doctors don't feel confident in talking to patients about what constitutes a healthy diet, then it might help to explain why the US has one of highest incidences of obesity in the world.


Maybe the "fixed idea" was the wrong word.  I agree. I should have said the "prevalent opinion in the medical profession".  Most doctors dismiss nutrition as completely irrelevant.  They know drugs work and work fast without changing the patient's lifestyle.

As for the nutrition itself, well, everybody is different (metabolism, activity level) but most people benefit from "mostly plant-based" diets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX58PyQwrcI

I tried the mostly plant-based diet (plus eggs and fish) and I drank only water for 6 months, my HDL is 40, LDL is 82 (still high), total cholesterol is 140 (went down from 270), my BMI went from 24 to 20.  When my doctor saw my blood test results, she ordered a second test to validate the results.  Now we exchange tips on the best sources of macros and micros.  She never saw such a big improvement in her 40 years of being a family doctor.  Oh, and the side effect was that my testosterone went to 798, and I am in my early 50s.

I want to get it to 117 total cholesterol like that old guy in the video.

Now, I firmly believe that we are what we eat.
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October 10, 2018, 01:37:10 PM
 #14

Modern Medicines are of great help in case of extreme emergency cases.  Life threats must be dealt immediately with these medicines to save life.  But using it for each and every sickness is very much dangerous.  All these medicines have side effects.  If these cure one decease; they generate several reasons for new start of other deceases.  There are some common deceases like blood pressure ; blood sugar; where these medicines have completely failed.  The patient has to consume pills for life time.  These do not cure; just suppress the level of BP or sugar, cholesterol etc.  Not even a single man is cured by using these medicines.  If you continuously consume cholesterol medicine; after 2-3 years it will be affecting your bones; kidney etc.  So IMO that it is just foolish to use this lifetime.

Homeopathic ; Ayurveda medicines are alternative having no side effects.  I also suggest if one has option to use either of these two ; they should prefer these only.  And if your baby suffers from some decease ; never make him habitual of modern medicine.  Always get treatment for the baby from Ayurveda / Homeopathic doctor.  

Third and best option is Yoga and pranayam.  Yoga is not just physical exercise.  If you can spare one hour a day in the morning; I guarantee that you will see the  results in just 3-6 months.  Your efficiency will increase.  There is no decease in the universe which can not be cured under this system for if not 100% but for +95% cases.  If you get your training from some expert trainer for few months it will be better.  Or else your can follow . world famous Yoga master Swami Ramdev on facebook twitter etc.  His videos are uploaded on you tube also.  
https://twitter.com/yogrishiramdev
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=swami%20ramdev%20yoga%20classic
https://www.facebook.com/NewsNationChannel/videos/1324166504347714/

If one visits India ; can visit his Ashram (institution)  the Patanjali Yogpeeth at Hardwar where he himself conducts yoga classes.  Stay; food of good quality is also available there.  You may learn by watching his videos too.  
In addition to above Pranayama (deep breathing exercise) if done for half an hour.  99.9% deceases can be cured.  It is just free no fee.  But with best results.
I have experienced yoga and pranayam. Smiley

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October 10, 2018, 03:32:11 PM
 #15

Maybe the "fixed idea" was the wrong word.  I agree. I should have said the "prevalent opinion in the medical profession".  Most doctors dismiss nutrition as completely irrelevant.  They know drugs work and work fast without changing the patient's lifestyle.

Lifestyle changes are hard. Changing diet, taking up exercise, stopping smoking, stopping drinking - these things require effort on the part of the patient. I wouldn't agree that most doctors think these things are irrelevant, but you are right that it is much easier to prescribe a statin or an ACE inhibitor than it is to get the patient to change their diet, exercise, and lose weight.


As for the nutrition itself, well, everybody is different (metabolism, activity level) but most people benefit from "mostly plant-based" diets.

There is no doubt that we should all be eating more fruits and vegetables and less sugar and soda. And there is also no doubt that too much red meat is particularly bad for you in terms of cholesterol and cancer risk. I wouldn't go as far as advocating veganism however, as there are too many nutrient deficiencies in a vegan diet - calcium, Iron, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, often even protein.


Homeopathic ; Ayurveda medicines are alternative having no side effects.

The reason homeopathic "medicines" have no side effects because is because they have no effects whatsoever. They are sham water tablets. Go peddle your scam elsewhere please.



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October 10, 2018, 03:59:37 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #16

Homeopathic ; Ayurveda medicines are alternative having no side effects.

The reason homeopathic "medicines" have no side effects because is because they have no effects whatsoever. They are sham water tablets. Go peddle your scam elsewhere please.

I don't think Ayurveda and Homeopathy are equivalent in any way beyond their ineffectiveness

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda#Classification_and_efficacy

Quote
Although laboratory experiments suggest it is possible that some substances in Ayurveda might be developed into effective treatments, there is no evidence that any are effective in themselves.
(...)

Some traditional Indian herbal medicinal products contain harmful levels of heavy metals, including lead. A 1990 study on Ayurvedic medicines in India found that 41% of the products tested contained arsenic, and that 64% contained lead and mercury. A 2004 study found toxic levels of heavy metals in 20% of Ayurvedic preparations made in South Asia and sold in the Boston area, and concluded that Ayurvedic products posed serious health risks and should be tested for heavy-metal contamination. A 2008 study of more than 230 products found that approximately 20% of remedies (and 40% of rasa shastra medicines) purchased over the Internet from U.S. and Indian suppliers contained lead, mercury or arsenic. A 2015 study of users in the United States found elevated blood lead levels in 40% of those tested, leading physician and former U.S. Air Force flight surgeon Harriet Hall to say that "Ayurveda is basically superstition mixed with a soupçon of practical health advice. And it can be dangerous."

The "no side-effects" claim is debunked by the above quote... 40% have elevated blood pressure, and many of these "medicines" contain toxic levels of heavy metals
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October 10, 2018, 04:25:36 PM
 #17

Homeopathic ; Ayurveda medicines are alternative having no side effects.

The reason homeopathic "medicines" have no side effects because is because they have no effects whatsoever. They are sham water tablets. Go peddle your scam elsewhere please.

I don't think Ayurveda and Homeopathy are equivalent in any way beyond their ineffectiveness

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda#Classification_and_efficacy

Quote
Although laboratory experiments suggest it is possible that some substances in Ayurveda might be developed into effective treatments, there is no evidence that any are effective in themselves.
(...)

Some traditional Indian herbal medicinal products contain harmful levels of heavy metals, including lead. A 1990 study on Ayurvedic medicines in India found that 41% of the products tested contained arsenic, and that 64% contained lead and mercury. A 2004 study found toxic levels of heavy metals in 20% of Ayurvedic preparations made in South Asia and sold in the Boston area, and concluded that Ayurvedic products posed serious health risks and should be tested for heavy-metal contamination. A 2008 study of more than 230 products found that approximately 20% of remedies (and 40% of rasa shastra medicines) purchased over the Internet from U.S. and Indian suppliers contained lead, mercury or arsenic. A 2015 study of users in the United States found elevated blood lead levels in 40% of those tested, leading physician and former U.S. Air Force flight surgeon Harriet Hall to say that "Ayurveda is basically superstition mixed with a soupçon of practical health advice. And it can be dangerous."

The "no side-effects" claim is debunked by the above quote... 40% have elevated blood pressure, and many of these "medicines" contain toxic levels of heavy metals

But EDTA and cilantro remove heavy metals - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3654245/.

     Cool
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October 11, 2018, 09:57:06 AM
 #18

But EDTA and cilantro remove heavy metals - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3654245/.

     Cool
Yes, real medicine can often cure the problems caused by fake medicine, but that doesn't make using fake medicine a good idea, any more than the existence of antivenom makes snake handing a good idea.

Will pretend to do unverifiable things (while actually eating an enchilada-style burrito) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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October 11, 2018, 12:40:10 PM
Merited by Foxpup (1)
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But EDTA and cilantro remove heavy metals - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3654245/.

Yes, real medicine can often cure the problems caused by fake medicine, but that doesn't make using fake medicine a good idea, any more than the existence of antivenom makes snake handing a good idea.

Not to mention EDTA is toxic... BADLogic is recommending ingesting one toxin to rid yourself of another:

EDTA exhibits low acute toxicity with LD50 (rat) of 2.0 g/kg to 2.2 g/kg.  It has been found to be both cytotoxic and weakly genotoxic in laboratory animals. Oral exposures have been noted to cause reproductive and developmental effects.


So let me get this straight... I take the Ayurveda medicine to cure me of xxx disease... then I take the EDTA to cure me of the toxins in the Ayurveda medicine... so, what do I take to rid myself of the toxic effects of EDTA?  More Ayurveda medicine?!?
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October 11, 2018, 01:10:56 PM
 #20

Even if Ayurveda medicine had some actual healing properties (it doesn't) and was effective for some diseases (it isn't), there is no way in hell it would ever be approved for use in the developed world given the level of toxic heavy metals it contains.

Heavy metals are not to be fucked around with. Poisoning can cause anything from headaches and vomiting through to kidney failure, liver failure, your skin peeling off, and death. The various antidotes used (Sodium Calcium Edetate and Dimercaprol are the common ones) come with their own large list of side effects.

It always baffles me that people would use alternative "medicines" that either have been proven not to work, or in this case, actively make things worse. Steve Jobs for example. He had a type of minimally invasive pancreatic cancer that is very treatable and usually curable. Instead of treatment, he decided to try veganism, acupuncture and herbal remedies. And well, we all know how that turned out.

There is a reason human life expectancy is the highest it has ever been, and I can assure you it has nothing to do with cleansing your aura or eating raw herbs.


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