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Author Topic: [ANN][DCR] Decred - Community Governance | Bitcoin Devs | Lightning Network  (Read 1088378 times)
gembitz
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February 06, 2019, 07:03:28 PM
 #10601

Somebody participating in Poletia? I just want to try, but I feel responsibility. Because that very important for project.
Additionally, someone participating in bug bounty?

Somebody who want know more about Decred, please read the Decred Journal: https://xaur.github.io/decred-news/
There is support 5 languages now!  Smiley

Yes, lots of people are participating in Poletia. Lots of good comments and feedback on every proposal.

Don't worry, in the end, your vote is only as big as your wallet. Not to belittle the responsibility...

insiders/exchanges have biggest wallets ... stop and think  Roll Eyes  zzz

Exchanges can't lock up liquidity with tickets (think that through  Roll Eyes). And every coin has "insiders". They're simply the first-movers. duh. We all know there is a plutocratic element to this blockchain. It's by design.

when the majority of coins are held by insiders and exchanges how can they claim any type of democracy? .. i want some of what you are smoking!!! :\ pfft lol

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February 06, 2019, 11:33:57 PM
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 #10602

New article on Forbes about Decred DeX proposal

https://www.forbes.com/sites/leslieankney/2019/02/04/no-more-trading-or-listing-fees-decred-releases-new-dex-proposal/#4e29ec0235d9


With so many cryptocurrency projects creating decentralized exchanges (DEXs) of their own, it’s reasonable to be skeptical about yet another. Today, cryptocurrency project Decred released an official proposal for its own Decentralized Exchange (DEX). Decred founder Jacob Yocom-Piatt says frustrations with the listing process on large, centralized exchanges initially sparked his plan, but the Decred community will ultimately decide if a DEX is the right next step. While Decred may offer an alternative, will they be able to draw the liquidity missing from existing DEXs and meet regulatory concerns?

"The Decred proposal outlines, “a new type of cryptocurrency-only decentralized exchange based on open source software that will allow cross-chain trading to occur directly between users, with minimal fees and a simple client-server architecture.”

Background On Decred

Decred is a cryptocurrency project born out of disagreement within the bitcoin developer community. The project has a total supply of 21 million coins, with an 8% premine to cover some development costs and share through an airdrop. For more information on Decred, take a look at this piece I wrote on Decred Governance earlier this year. Cryptocurrency, DCR, usually falls somewhere in the 30s by market cap and was listed on Poloniex in 2016 and Binance in 2018.


The Decred DEX proposal will be voted on in Decred's off-chain voting platform Politeia where it will need to be discussed and passed by community members before any development takes place.

Another Day, Another DEX?

Yocom-Piatt says the Decred DEX will be a departure from the profit-seeking models followed by centralized exchanges and DEXs today. “Centralized exchanges make huge profits on listing fees and trading fees. Some of the big ones request ridiculous 6-, 7-, or even 8-figure listing fees. Most DEXs are also based on a profit-seeking model that doesn’t always equal fair play for retail traders.” says Yocom-Piatt.

Most cryptocurrency exchanges run on either an underlying token or blockchain to make a profit on trades. Some also offer discounted trading fees to traders who buy and use their own exchange token for lower trading fees. Binance, for example, offers a 25% trading discount when traders use its native exchange token, BNB. DEXs, like IDEX, 0x and BarterDEX pair traders through atomic swaps where traders pay a percentage fee on each trade. Decred’s DEX isn’t charging trading fees, but traders still have to pay a fee to each server they use to make trades.

Yocom-Piatt says this new DEX is focused on fairness for all traders,

“By doing pseudorandom order matching in epochs — say every 10-60 seconds — it puts everyone on a much more level playing field with respect to latency. The person using satellite internet in Siberia can't be taken advantage of by traders with a fiber link at the nearest interchange point, allowing buyers and sellers to transact without the opportunity for day traders to front-run their orders.”

Regulation Still Applies

A bigger potential issue stems around US regulations surrounding cryptocurrency exchanges, especially as the SEC is carrying out more regulatory action around cryptocurrency. Speaking to the regulatory concerns all decentralized exchanges should consider, Jake Chervinsky, a lawyer specializing in crypto-regulation at Kobre & Kim LLP says,

“Despite the difference in the underlying technology, decentralized exchanges are likely to face all the same regulatory challenges as centralized exchanges. Last November, the SEC sent the message through EtherDelta that decentralized exchanges are subject to all the requirements imposed by the federal securities laws, including registration as a “national securities exchange” under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. At the time, the chief of the SEC’s cyber unit, Robert Cohen, explained “[t]he focus is not on the label you put on something or the technology you’re using. The focus is on the function, and what the platform is doing.” The CFTC will likely take the same view for exchanges required to register under the Commodity Exchange Act.”


What’s Different From Other DEXs and Exchanges:

- Decentralized decision-making Ultimately, whether or not this DEX happens, is up to participants in Decred's off-chain voting system.

- A very simplistic matching method (client-server model) Most DEXs use their own token or special blockchain to execute trades, but this is somewhat similar to AirSwap’s model, minus the underlying token.

- Only cryptocurrencies are traded, no fiat currencies (meaning you have to make the cash to crypto conversion elsewhere, get paid for work via Bitwage, or some other creative solution that will probably require full identity verification to meet KYC laws.

- No trading fees for matching orders, you will have to pay an initiation fee to each server you want to trade through.

- Standardized buy/sell order sizes to make it easier to match traders.

- Support for any trading pair by market demand. Listing new coins is as simple as users offering up a new trading pair “I want to sell YouNameItCoin for BTC and someone else agreeing to make the swap”.

- The trader sends first. Centralized exchanges solve this question by having both parties send funds to them first, but sometimes it's unclear who sends funds first on DEXs. On Decred’s client-server model, if you put in a market or limit order with a server, as the client, you would send funds first.

- A trading reputation system. If the client decides to stop the trade at any point in the atomic swap process, proof of their misbehavior is published publicly for other clients and servers can see. Servers can also ban “bad actors” from trading “after a certain threshold”.


What’s Similar To Existing DEXs:

- Traders always have custody of their funds. Traders don’t have to worry about custody problems or commingled funds because swaps occur between buyers and sellers and never the exchange.

- Atomic swaps through basic smart contracts. Several other DEXs work similarly
to match buyers and sellers without a middleman by using atomic swaps.

An atomic swap works by two parties agreeing to trade their funds. The Decred DEX proposes once a trade is complete, the trade gets broadcasted on the servers, making a record of the transaction.


Comparing To Komodo BarterDEX

I spoke with Komodo CTO, Kadan Stadelmann on the differences between BarterDEX and Decred’s plan. Komodo Platform’s BarterDEX has already completed more than 120,000 atomic swaps, directly trading cryptocurrencies without the use of a proxy token, and instead charging a trading fee.

Stadelmann explains, “While both projects use a similar approach towards atomic swaps, Komodo has a small upfront fee of 1/777 for the taker.” This means any trader taking liquidity out of the market pays to do so. Stadelmann added, “We have been a pioneer of atomic swaps and have been working on evolving the technology since 2014. BarterDEX allows us to integrate with exchanges, wallet providers, and liquidity partners, giving more options to utilize atomic swap DEX technology.”

Komodo is ahead of Decred in terms of DEX development, but it also takes a more integrated approach to working with larger centralized exchanges. This means while BarterDEX may offer more liquidity and choice as its partnerships come through, it isn’t a DEX that addresses issues around coin listing prices and potentially unfair advantages for high-level traders.

What makes Komodo’s BarterDEX different is in the way it collects fees.  Both BarterDEX and the Decred proposal carry out this transactions through peer-to-peer atomic swaps.

Decred’s DEX proposal outlines directly exchanging coins between two chains (peer-to-peer), with a small fee to join a server rather than a fee on every trade. Yocom-Piatt explains,

“No DEX to this point has been solely created in the name of the public good, for the users of crypto in the original spirit of crypto.”

Decred’s decision to create a DEX comes at a time when US regulators are paying more attention to cryptocurrency trading. As the project moves forward, it will also need to define its approach to compliance in the ways its defined its role amongst crypto exchanges today.
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February 07, 2019, 12:14:48 AM
 #10603

Somebody participating in Poletia? I just want to try, but I feel responsibility. Because that very important for project.
Additionally, someone participating in bug bounty?

Somebody who want know more about Decred, please read the Decred Journal: https://xaur.github.io/decred-news/
There is support 5 languages now!  Smiley

Yes, lots of people are participating in Poletia. Lots of good comments and feedback on every proposal.

Don't worry, in the end, your vote is only as big as your wallet. Not to belittle the responsibility...

insiders/exchanges have biggest wallets ... stop and think  Roll Eyes  zzz

Exchanges can't lock up liquidity with tickets (think that through  Roll Eyes). And every coin has "insiders". They're simply the first-movers. duh. We all know there is a plutocratic element to this blockchain. It's by design.

when the majority of coins are held by insiders and exchanges how can they claim any type of democracy? .. i want some of what you are smoking!!! :\ pfft lol

Even if you are right, I think the problem with insiders holding a majority in a network will always be part of decentralized technologies.


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iCEBREAKER
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February 07, 2019, 01:09:26 AM
 #10604


Building a DEX run by its stakeholding participants is a perfect use of Politeia.   Cool

My only concern/suggestion is regarding coding from scratch yet another exchange when production-ready code plus actual users already exist for Bisq.
Sure, that code is in Java and not Go.  But a refactor/rewrite offers opportunity for polishing Bisq while maximizing our DeX's compatibility with it.
Since Bisq already supports DCR, I'm increasingly wary of "Not Invented Here" syndrome inducing duplication of efforts at the expense of our Treasury (which is currently crippled by low Winter prices).

The tricky bits for any dex are the networking and PKI, which are most easily developed in a purpose-built high level language like Java.
The trade off for Java is the larger (relative to Rust/Go) footprint (aka attack surface) which is a mess of dependencies, gobs of memory, and undefined behavior in edge/corner case bugs.

That's why Monero's community funded a valiant yet ultimately futile effort to port I2P from Java to C++.


It's annoying seeing anything Decred does compared to harmful digital trash like Blocknet (a Dash-like 2014 era scam that uses Masternodes) and Komodo (another 2014 scam going back to jl777's "Bitcoin Dark" shitcoin scammunity).


In other news, Cardano announced and delivered their privacy/fungibility whitepaper in less time than Decred has spent waiting for their pre-announced solution to materialize:
Quote
Sonic: Zero-Knowledge SNARKs from Linear-Size Universal andUpdateable Structured Reference Strings
https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/099.pdf

Litecoin has also announced their choice of CT to make LTC fungible.

Where is Decred's privacy solution?  If we don't have one then making atomic swaps with coins that do/will (XMR/LTC/ADA) should be the next priority after the BTC/DCR minimum viable product.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
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February 07, 2019, 11:12:15 AM
 #10605

Somebody participating in Poletia? I just want to try, but I feel responsibility. Because that very important for project.
Additionally, someone participating in bug bounty?

Somebody who want know more about Decred, please read the Decred Journal: https://xaur.github.io/decred-news/
There is support 5 languages now!  Smiley

Yes, lots of people are participating in Poletia. Lots of good comments and feedback on every proposal.

Don't worry, in the end, your vote is only as big as your wallet. Not to belittle the responsibility...


Maybe that's the reason why some Bitcoiners believe that Decred's on-chain governance is a "joke"? The more we believe it's going to be different, the more it's going to be the same it seems. The oligarchs still rule. Sad


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February 07, 2019, 03:39:15 PM
 #10606


Don't worry, in the end, your vote is only as big as your wallet. Not to belittle the responsibility...


Maybe that's the reason why some Bitcoiners believe that Decred's on-chain governance is a "joke"? The more we believe it's going to be different, the more it's going to be the same it seems. The oligarchs still rule. Sad


Can you think of a better alternative? Cause I sure can't, at least not one that is not easy to exploit.

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February 07, 2019, 04:25:07 PM
Last edit: February 07, 2019, 11:50:08 PM by EmilioMann
 #10607

Most people don't understand that a State's governance is very different from the governance of a company or organization or entity.
What looks bad in one is not necessarily bad in the other.
In the same way that what looks good in one can generate chaos on other.

In state governance we are talking about managing people, civil society. A system is needed that protects the weakest from the tyranny of the strongest.

In an entity's governance we are talking about managing money, an investiment and it is obvious that who has more money in the game must have a greater voting power. This doesn't make the business centralized. The decision continues to be made by hundreds or thousands of people. In addition, it is the support of the big investors who make the currency to value and the smaller ones to enrich.

This system ensures the security of everyone's investment. For example, if everyone had the same voting power, which would protect us from a troll attack by a competing coin with a big community of trolls?



Decred v1.4.0 is out!

This release includes a new consensus vote agenda, speed-ups, alpha Trezor support, advanced Politeia integration, and much more!
Users are encouraged to upgrade for the new vote.

Release notes: https://github.com/decred/decred-binaries/blob/master/release-notes.md

Downloads: https://www.decred.org/downloads/

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February 08, 2019, 04:45:59 AM
Last edit: February 08, 2019, 09:53:07 PM by EmilioMann
 #10608

Very nice technical explanation from Matheus Degiovani about the events that led to the creation of DCP0004.

https://matheusd.com/post/dcp0004-and-hardforks/


EDIT: "This article is an excellent analysis of the sequence of events that led to the creation of DCP0004 and the upcoming consensus vote.

It is also a practical example of how the stakeholder voting in Decred makes it exceedingly difficult to change the consensus rules, intentionally or not, without the consent of stakeholders." - davecgh


The best news of all is that if the new rules are approved by the stakeholders in the onchain vote, Decred will be ready for Lightning Network  Grin


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February 12, 2019, 07:41:12 AM
 #10609

https://twitter.com/FastCryptoTrade/status/1095225654814085121

don't forget update to 1.4.0 and set vote to fixlnseqlocks, if you vote solo

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gembitz
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February 12, 2019, 04:59:43 PM
 #10610


Building a DEX run by its stakeholding participants is a perfect use of Politeia.   Cool

My only concern/suggestion is regarding coding from scratch yet another exchange when production-ready code plus actual users already exist for Bisq.
Sure, that code is in Java and not Go.  But a refactor/rewrite offers opportunity for polishing Bisq while maximizing our DeX's compatibility with it.
Since Bisq already supports DCR, I'm increasingly wary of "Not Invented Here" syndrome inducing duplication of efforts at the expense of our Treasury (which is currently crippled by low Winter prices).

The tricky bits for any dex are the networking and PKI, which are most easily developed in a purpose-built high level language like Java.
The trade off for Java is the larger (relative to Rust/Go) footprint (aka attack surface) which is a mess of dependencies, gobs of memory, and undefined behavior in edge/corner case bugs.

That's why Monero's community funded a valiant yet ultimately futile effort to port I2P from Java to C++.


It's annoying seeing anything Decred does compared to harmful digital trash like Blocknet (a Dash-like 2014 era scam that uses Masternodes) and Komodo (another 2014 scam going back to jl777's "Bitcoin Dark" shitcoin scammunity).


In other news, Cardano announced and delivered their privacy/fungibility whitepaper in less time than Decred has spent waiting for their pre-announced solution to materialize:
Quote
Sonic: Zero-Knowledge SNARKs from Linear-Size Universal andUpdateable Structured Reference Strings
https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/099.pdf

Litecoin has also announced their choice of CT to make LTC fungible.

Where is Decred's privacy solution?  If we don't have one then making atomic swaps with coins that do/will (XMR/LTC/ADA) should be the next priority after the BTC/DCR minimum viable product.

DCR is simply another bittrex insider scam...fake airdrop(phishing scam) and bogus "voting" mechanism... dcr is like bitconnect on steroids :\ meh pfft

#makebitcointalkgreatagain-_-*my posts are strictly for entertainment purposes only. It should not be regarded as investment/trading advice.*advocate to promote sharing and free software for the bitcoin community* #EFF #FSF ===> START WITH NOTHING AND BUILD IT INTO SOMETHING!
IncludeBeer
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February 13, 2019, 06:27:18 AM
 #10611

Ticket prices are spiking!

Soo much DCR locked up...

Grow the Dividend Snek! (pm me if you have questions)
https://powh.io/?masternode=0x1f9b145fdaef2b82aef29c2f3c9b875a8b017512
Wind_FURY
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Crypto-Games.net: Multiple coins, multiple games


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February 14, 2019, 08:33:07 AM
 #10612


Don't worry, in the end, your vote is only as big as your wallet. Not to belittle the responsibility...


Maybe that's the reason why some Bitcoiners believe that Decred's on-chain governance is a "joke"? The more we believe it's going to be different, the more it's going to be the same it seems. The oligarchs still rule. Sad


Can you think of a better alternative? Cause I sure can't, at least not one that is not easy to exploit.

Truthfuly, I can't too. But that wasn't the point. Because if on-chain governance is run by the oligarchs, then why re-invent the wheel?

I'm sorry for the probing questions, but I'm trying to find a good reply for those people who say that "on-chain governance is a joke".


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bspus
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February 15, 2019, 04:23:00 PM
 #10613


Don't worry, in the end, your vote is only as big as your wallet. Not to belittle the responsibility...


Maybe that's the reason why some Bitcoiners believe that Decred's on-chain governance is a "joke"? The more we believe it's going to be different, the more it's going to be the same it seems. The oligarchs still rule. Sad


Can you think of a better alternative? Cause I sure can't, at least not one that is not easy to exploit.

Truthfuly, I can't too. But that wasn't the point. Because if on-chain governance is run by the oligarchs, then why re-invent the wheel?

I'm sorry for the probing questions, but I'm trying to find a good reply for those people who say that "on-chain governance is a joke".

I see.
First of all, I don't believe there has ever been any other type of governance. I know we all supposedly live in a "democracy" but in reality, it's always the elite that rule.
Sure it's a better system than ruling by birthright. They rule by getting voted in and for a limited time, but still, its just a different form of oligarchy, even if it's a better one.
And in the other extreme, even the most fearsome and absolute tyrant cannot do everything by himself. He would have to delegate some power to his trusted elite.

Just the fact that on-chain governance is still an oligarchy does not make it a joke, unless it had an explicit goal of not being an oligarchy.

If you can have more transparency, more meritocracy, fewer barriers to entry, and in general a more robust system of values or rules by which to govern, it can be an upgrade despite still being an oligarchy.

IncludeBeer
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February 15, 2019, 05:45:06 PM
 #10614


Don't worry, in the end, your vote is only as big as your wallet. Not to belittle the responsibility...


Maybe that's the reason why some Bitcoiners believe that Decred's on-chain governance is a "joke"? The more we believe it's going to be different, the more it's going to be the same it seems. The oligarchs still rule. Sad


Can you think of a better alternative? Cause I sure can't, at least not one that is not easy to exploit.

Truthfuly, I can't too. But that wasn't the point. Because if on-chain governance is run by the oligarchs, then why re-invent the wheel?

I'm sorry for the probing questions, but I'm trying to find a good reply for those people who say that "on-chain governance is a joke".

I read, some time ago, a really great article around challenging the idea of plutocracy in blockchain governance (I'd argue Decred is more plutocratic than oligarch). Really excellent read.
https://medium.com/mosaic-network-blog/is-plutocratic-on-chain-governance-really-a-bad-thing-68132700205c

And then there's this gem which both Vlad and Vitalik have a nice response to:
https://medium.com/@FEhrsam/blockchain-governance-programming-our-future-c3bfe30f2d74

Great food for thought, for those of us that like to probe  Wink

Grow the Dividend Snek! (pm me if you have questions)
https://powh.io/?masternode=0x1f9b145fdaef2b82aef29c2f3c9b875a8b017512
antonio8
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February 16, 2019, 02:21:33 AM
 #10615

So I have not been paying attention like I should.

Just noticed and updated to the current wallet.

I'm on Windows 10 and running the Decredation and my wallet shows synced with my correct amount.

The issue I have is it shows about half of my Current Balance as Available. I don't have any Tickets Open and on the Tickets tab it shows 0 active tickets.

Is there a way or command to try and rebalance the wallet?

Not sure if any of the normal commands work and I did not want to try and mess the wallet up.

If you are going to leave your BTC on an exchange please send it to this address instead 1GH3ub3UUHbU5qDJW5u3E9jZ96ZEmzaXtG, I will at least use the money better than someone who steals it from the exchange. Thanks Wink
EmilioMann
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February 16, 2019, 08:25:35 PM
 #10616

So I have not been paying attention like I should.

Just noticed and updated to the current wallet.

I'm on Windows 10 and running the Decredation and my wallet shows synced with my correct amount.

The issue I have is it shows about half of my Current Balance as Available. I don't have any Tickets Open and on the Tickets tab it shows 0 active tickets.

Is there a way or command to try and rebalance the wallet?

Not sure if any of the normal commands work and I did not want to try and mess the wallet up.

try a rescan
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February 16, 2019, 11:22:13 PM
 #10617

Jake Yocom-Piatt was in Brazil this week, speaking on Campus Party about security and adaptability in crypto currencies.



allfriends88
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February 16, 2019, 11:30:18 PM
 #10618

Jake Yocom-Piatt was in Brazil this week, speaking on Campus Party about security and adaptability in crypto currencies.




Nice, even though it has a great community, DCR keep growing and will continue to be like that, build community and partner with events or event such as this, which gives knowledge to others. I am very excited this time.

Wind_FURY
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February 18, 2019, 05:38:28 AM
 #10619


Don't worry, in the end, your vote is only as big as your wallet. Not to belittle the responsibility...


Maybe that's the reason why some Bitcoiners believe that Decred's on-chain governance is a "joke"? The more we believe it's going to be different, the more it's going to be the same it seems. The oligarchs still rule. Sad


Can you think of a better alternative? Cause I sure can't, at least not one that is not easy to exploit.

Truthfuly, I can't too. But that wasn't the point. Because if on-chain governance is run by the oligarchs, then why re-invent the wheel?

I'm sorry for the probing questions, but I'm trying to find a good reply for those people who say that "on-chain governance is a joke".

I see.
First of all, I don't believe there has ever been any other type of governance. I know we all supposedly live in a "democracy" but in reality, it's always the elite that rule.
Sure it's a better system than ruling by birthright. They rule by getting voted in and for a limited time, but still, its just a different form of oligarchy, even if it's a better one.
And in the other extreme, even the most fearsome and absolute tyrant cannot do everything by himself. He would have to delegate some power to his trusted elite.

Just the fact that on-chain governance is still an oligarchy does not make it a joke, unless it had an explicit goal of not being an oligarchy.

If you can have more transparency, more meritocracy, fewer barriers to entry, and in general a more robust system of values or rules by which to govern, it can be an upgrade despite still being an oligarchy.

I like it. Ok, I will use the bolded text as a reply next time. Thanks! Cool


Don't worry, in the end, your vote is only as big as your wallet. Not to belittle the responsibility...


Maybe that's the reason why some Bitcoiners believe that Decred's on-chain governance is a "joke"? The more we believe it's going to be different, the more it's going to be the same it seems. The oligarchs still rule. Sad


Can you think of a better alternative? Cause I sure can't, at least not one that is not easy to exploit.

Truthfuly, I can't too. But that wasn't the point. Because if on-chain governance is run by the oligarchs, then why re-invent the wheel?

I'm sorry for the probing questions, but I'm trying to find a good reply for those people who say that "on-chain governance is a joke".

I read, some time ago, a really great article around challenging the idea of plutocracy in blockchain governance (I'd argue Decred is more plutocratic than oligarch). Really excellent read.
https://medium.com/mosaic-network-blog/is-plutocratic-on-chain-governance-really-a-bad-thing-68132700205c

And then there's this gem which both Vlad and Vitalik have a nice response to:
https://medium.com/@FEhrsam/blockchain-governance-programming-our-future-c3bfe30f2d74

Great food for thought, for those of us that like to probe  Wink

Oligarchy - plutocratic, it's all the same for a pleb like me. Haha.

I will read the blogs later. Thanks for sharing them.


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February 21, 2019, 08:27:47 PM
 #10620

price is going down, and down, down and.....
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